308 - Fast tech advice wanted for possible purchase | FerrariChat

308 - Fast tech advice wanted for possible purchase

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by ArtH, Jun 1, 2005.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. ArtH

    ArtH Rookie

    May 16, 2005
    47
    N. Virginia
    QUICK ADVICE WANTED! I just made an offer for a 79 308 GTS. I'd sure appreciate your fast thoughts!

    I'll be talking to the sellers mechanic tomorrow (Alan Himes/Craftsmen in Falls Church, VA--anyone know and like the shop?).

    Fellow Ferraristas, what'cha think? What would you consider this car worth? Any major yellow or red flags? Given the high miles (apart from the engine), any major concerns?

    This will be a fun driver, not a show car for me, so perfection in appearance isn't my goal, but something which will last well and look good is the idea.

    Here's the rundown from my 2 hr inspection and drive:

    The good stuff:
    * 2K miles on rebuilt engine (144K miles on car).
    * 1999 repaint.
    * Newly recovered seats (very nicely done) and new carpet. Tan seats with black inserts, tan carpets but the tan carpets is a different shade from the seats.
    * Runs very nice.
    * Brakes feel very nice, rotors look like virtually no wear.
    * Handles fine.
    * Shifts nicely.
    * Carbs clean enough to eat out of--rebuilt 2004.
    * CV boots look fine.
    * Has owner's manual (but no shop manual).
    * Lights, wipers (kind of slow on a dry windshield), horn, etc. all work.
    * Air pump (smog) is there with at least the lines going to the rear bank present--I can't tell what else should be there emissions-wise.
    * Reasonable CD stereo, speakers don't sound the best.


    The "Rest of the Story":
    * Paint very nice but has some various chips.
    * Some rust bubling under the paint on both front fenders towards the doors. Doors and rocker panels fine.
    * Some of the black trim and louvers are faded original paint, others sloppily repainted.
    * Oil leaking from the region of the rear bank on the side of the trans. Can't see where it's coming from.
    * Airconditioning doesn't cool at all. Not converted to 134a. (I know, it's a GTS and why on earth would I want to seal myself up in the car so I can't hear the song of the engine!)
    * Suspension bushings look original, but not really bad (I've seen bad on my Triumph!).
    * Shocks seem alright, but look old and a bit rusty.
    * Some surface rust and missing paint on the black structures on the underside of the engine cover (do we call that a "hood" or a "trunk"!?)
    * Engine compartment paint (black areas) not great.
    * A little black soot from the exhaust when starting the car, then it gets very minor but still a little visible when revving. Is that oil or too rich?
    * There's a 2'X2' pan on the front underside near the front (forward of the battery I think, or maybe not) that is rusted through a little at the front corners.
    * Clutch seems fine, not as grabby as another 308 I drove, but no slippage or chattering at all. With 2K miles on the engine it should be (had better be!) a new clutch.
    * The dashboard is in fine condition except for the cowl over the instrument panel, which has a 2"x1/2" missing area on the dried and cracked leather. (is replacing that section expensive? Stitching on front of it frayed because it's too darned close to the steering wheel!
    * The steering wheel leather wrap is in fair shape but all the stitching is gone so it's separated at the seam. Might or might not be too shrunken to restitch.
    * Engine cover hydraulic lifts don't hold it up.
    * No tool roll, no jack & kit.
    * Windows so slow the snails laugh, but they do go up and down!
    * Fuse blocks look good except for one fuse terminal which was cleaned some after overheating.
    * Very small star on the windshield, should be repairable.
    * Emergency brake needs adjustment.
    * 2 curb-side wheels have scrapes, but otherwise paint good. Driver's side fairly good, spare fair. No logo center cap on spare, should there be one?
    * Tires 70% worn. Original (age-crazed) spare!
    * A couple center console toggle switches missing the black caps.
    * Various other "old car" things which look worn if you really look for them.

    Thanks!
    Art in Virginia
     
  2. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,596
    Gates Mills, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Jon
    What did you offer? And did you offer before the PPI, or contingent?

    The rebuilt engine and carbs are nice - but I'd have thought the leaks would have been caught if the engine was removed for the rebuild.

    Oil smoke is blue-ish - the soot might be from lean/rich adjustment being off. Do you have to pass a smog test in VA? In CA, an out-of-tune carb'ed car might not pass. Not sure about VA.

    I think the dash is actually vinyl (I know it is on 328's). An auto upholstery shop could probably do the work - and probably do at least as good a job as the original.

    I guess my concern would be that, depending on what you want, the car's going to need a proper repaint. Fender rust can require a bare metal respray, otherwise it's hard to get all the panels to match. (Speaking from car experience, not Ferrari experience...)

    Good luck!
     
  3. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    2,223
    TN
    $19000-$20000 Does it have records of the rebuild? I just think with 144K it would be hard to resell. Even with the rebuilt engine it is 144K on the car. So I wouldn't go over $20K unless you just want the car.
     
  4. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
    2,559
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Philip
    If the motor has been rebuilt (ask what was done, by whom, what was the budget) and done well, I'd not be concerned about the mileage. Did they do trans at same time? Have a leakdown to confirm it is good. Look at the receipts to see what was done.

    Condition of the rest of the car, as you describe (e.g., the rust, the frayed steering wheel), sounds like it hasn't had the care and attention you'd hope. Reinforces question #1 above.

    Note:
    Bodywork is expensive - $2k? 6 year old repaint shouln't have degraded as you describe. Beginings of many more issues? Panels were not galvanized in 79.
    Shocks, bushings et al sound like they need doing, figure $1K.
    Steering wheel $200
    Panel beneath car is a cover. No issue. Just rub down and paint black (I made one).
    Trunk shocks - $70
    Tools and jack $600
    Tires, $800 a set.
    The switch gear stuff seemed a pain to buy and fix when I did mine 3 years ago.
    Engine compartment. Paint it yourself. Not an issue.
    Windshield and dash can be unbelievably expensive. Search this site for stories, particularly on the windscreen. If it can't be fixed and has to be replaced, get a quote before you proceed (and re-price the deal).
    AC?

    I think the estimates you have been given are on the money. You can find pretty nice cars for high twenties/low thirties, ratty ones for low twenties.

    Oh, other things - brake hoses, fuel hoses, radiator hoses infact, all rubber parts should be checked.

    If it all checks out to your satisfaction, buy it right and enjoy it. They are great cars, guaranteed to put a smile on your face.
    Good luck,
    Philip
     
  5. ArtH

    ArtH Rookie

    May 16, 2005
    47
    N. Virginia
    Thanks everyone!

    I really appreciate your expertise and advice. I got it today for $22K so now she's all mine, warts and all.

    As a Ferrari rookie, I'm sure I'll have lots of questions for the forum as I work on it, and as a veteran car nut I'm sure I'll contribute plenty of answers as well.

    Hope to meet you all at various events and clubs.

    Thanks again!!!

    Art in Virginia
    79 308 GTS
    81 Truimph TR7
     
  6. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    2,223
    TN
    Congrats. Sounds like you got a good deal.
     
  7. PeterS

    PeterS Five Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 24, 2003
    52,137
    Goodyear, AZ
    Full Name:
    PeterS
    Congrats on the new car. I have a '77 Euro 308. I bought it from Ferrari of SF for $15.5K and have dropped about $15K in it to date. When I bought it, it ran and looked great, but I'm anal on the small things.
     
  8. ArtH

    ArtH Rookie

    May 16, 2005
    47
    N. Virginia
  9. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    May 4, 2001
    36,431
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy

Share This Page