308 first gear won't engage - HELP! | FerrariChat
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308 first gear won't engage - HELP!

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Quasimotor, Jun 12, 2007.

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  1. Quasimotor

    Quasimotor Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2004
    351
    Yonkers, NY
    Full Name:
    George Avgerakis
    #1 Quasimotor, Jun 12, 2007
    I have a curious problem with my 1984 308 GTS (Euro). Most of the time, when I move the gear shift into first gear, the car remains in neutral. If I first shift into reverse, then immediately into first, it always engages. I can also get it to engage by NOT pressing the clutch and then slowly sliding the lever toward first. If it goes all the way in, it doesn't engage, but sometimes, it stops halfway. When this happens, if I then press the clutch and pull the lever all the way back, it usually engages when I let the clutch up.

    I have the feeling (well, it's a hope, really) that this is not a tranny problem, but a linkage adjustment somwhere under the car or under the shift lever. Can anyone help me diagnose this issue and give me simple instructions to adjust it?

    Also, the reverse gear always seems to grind, as if there were no synchro, unless is patiently wait until something (not the engine revs) stops spinning. This may or may not be related to the first gear problem, but would be good to learn about in any case.


    Thanks to all respondants!

    Quasimotor
     
  2. bill308

    bill308 Formula 3
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    May 13, 2001
    1,225
    Windsor, CT
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    Bill Sebestyen
    #2 bill308, Jun 14, 2007
    Quasimotor,

    Your problem seems to be a linkage issue. You need to check the silent block (rear bushing at the universal joint) where the shift linkage attaches to the shift rod entering the crank case. This bushing may need replacing. Also, you probably need to adjust the linkage rod for proper for-aft movement and clocking (rotational) adjustment. There are threads that detail the process if you search for them. I don't think it's serious transmission problem.

    Bill
     
  3. tomberlin

    tomberlin Formula Junior
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    Apr 9, 2005
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    tom berlin
    #3 tomberlin, Jun 14, 2007
    Reverse does not have synchros. If it grinds it usually means the clutch is not completely disengaging. Could need adjusting, could be clutch trouble, could be pilot bearing not spinning freely. This would also explain difficulty with first. It is synchronised, so it does not grind, but ut doesn't want to engage either. Just my opinion.
    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  4. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    Feb 24, 2006
    15,832
    Cerritos, CA.
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    Mike
    #4 miketuason, Jun 15, 2007
    Yes, I remember when my 308 QV wouldn't go in reverse, (to make story short) I found the bolt that was for the U-joint was barely hanging cause the nut came off lost it somewhere on the road, so I just replace the nut with a locking nut and add a lock washer and problem solve.

    Mike
     
  5. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
    4,286
    Black Forest Germany
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    Martin N.
    #5 Martin308GTB, Jun 15, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hello from Germany,

    I agree with bill308. Check the silent block in the shift shaft. It sometimes looks like on the picture, which shows mine, and makes shifting symptoms like yours.
    I had a similar issue and it rattled, because the worn bushing shifted sideways and caused metallic contact with the fork.
    I don't know whether it's possible to replace that bushing with the shift shaft in the car. I removed it from the transmission and combined the task with renewal of the shift shaft O-rings and tranny pan gasket.

    After the new bushings were installed - there is a similar one on the gearshift leverage inside the cabin - shifting was absolutely precise.

    Best Regards

    Martin
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  6. tomberlin

    tomberlin Formula Junior
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    tom berlin
    #6 tomberlin, Jun 15, 2007
    No argument with the linkage causing first gear trouble, but it does't explain reverse grinding.
    Tom
     
  7. tomberlin

    tomberlin Formula Junior
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    tom berlin
    #7 tomberlin, Jun 15, 2007
    Does it shift with the motor off?
     
  8. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
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    Paul
    #8 Artvonne, Jun 15, 2007
    Martin, that bushing is shot, lol.


    As has been posted, check for any loosness of slop anywhere from the lever back. Once you have that issue resolved, the only other remedy is to re-adjust the shift lever. I have had the same issue, but only after taking it apart and obviously misadjusting it. It is very very important the lever is solidly centered between the gates.

    Using second gear as an example, the lever should want to hover so as not to be rubbing either side of the gate. Its very touchy, as is fore and aft centering. From second to third, the lever should have an about equal throw, so as to have about the same clearance from the ends of the gates when in any gear. What you absolutely do not want is for the lever to bottom in the gate as the gear engages, or the gear may not be fully engaged and could cause serious gearbox damage if it were to pop out of gear under load. So make sure it has clearance in the gate ends.

    Once you have second adjusted, check all the other gears noting how the lever places itself between the gates, again striving for no riding of the lever against the gate sides. Also, as has been noted in other places, make sure the gate is not installed backwards. There is a dog under the slot to block reverse engagement. If you can engage the lever into reverse without pushing the lever down, check the gate. And just so no one misunderstands, there is no syncro on reverse gear, only the forward gears. Reverse uses straight cut gears.
     
  9. Quasimotor

    Quasimotor Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2004
    351
    Yonkers, NY
    Full Name:
    George Avgerakis
    #9 Quasimotor, Jun 15, 2007
    Thanks everyone. This is most helpful.

    1. I noticed, while experiencing this new wrinkle, that my shiftplate has come loose and needs tightening with the four set screws. Reading the only other thread that arises from a "1s gear" search, I learned that some people with this problem can get reliable first gear by pressing down. Could my entire problem be the loose shift plate, allowing the shift lever to ride too high?

    2. Artvone: Just how does one execute these adjustments? It would seem that one could do it from the cockpit, since one would need to carefully observe minute movements of the shift lever within the gate during adjustment or have two people working.

    3. The shift moves into reverse and any other gear easily with the engine off. The rotation of whatever is grinding in the reverse gear is independent of the RPS - seems that something else, like a flywheel, is spinning there, and needs to be stopped to allow smooth shift into reverse. Yes, this problem preceded the first gear problem and my mechanic told me not to worry about it and that I could eliminate it by first shifting into first and then into reverse.

    4. Martin (I think) - you sent me a photo - the only photo I received in this thread so far - and its label says, "26 images." But there was only one photo. Is this what you intended to send me?

    5. Under what key words would you suggest finding the additional threads on this topic. "First Gear" "Shift Lever" etc. did not produce results - hence my starting this thread.

    6. If anyone has photos of the silent block or its (correct and/or incorrect) component arrangement within?

    Again, thanks everyone! You've all been most helfpul.

    Quasimotor
     
  10. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
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    Paul
    #10 Artvonne, Jun 17, 2007
    I had the back of the car up on stands so I could get under it. There is a joint between the front of the gearbox and the shift lever rod, just in front of the gearbox. Look in the parts book and service manual, and look up under the car at the shift shaft, you will find it.

    You place the car in second (or third) and with the locknuts broke loose, screw or unscrew the adjustment on the shaft to move the lever forward or rearward in its position. Once you have your fore and aft where you want it, you have to find the lateral center. I did this by having the lever (and gearbox) in second gear, and with the adjuster loose, I rotated the gearbox end back and forth to note its center position, then tightened the joint. Then I would try it up in the car. Its probably much easier with two people, if they both know what thier doing, but really, I had it figured out by myself in no time. Just make sure you get those locknuts torqued properly :)
     

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