308 Fuel pump keeps running | FerrariChat

308 Fuel pump keeps running

Discussion in '308/328' started by chromeitcycles, Apr 19, 2013.

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  1. chromeitcycles

    chromeitcycles Karting

    Nov 9, 2005
    58
    Jacksonville,FL
    Full Name:
    Rob Davis
    I have a 82 308 gtbi Euro, it has been garaged for awhile while I went through Leukemia treatment. Now I am ready to enjoy driving her again. The factory fuel pump locked up from old ethanol gas sitting in the tank for awhile. Put a new Bosch long nose replacement pump in, drained old fuel out and replaced with ethanol free fuel. Went to crank the car up and noticed with the key on the fuel pump kept running. Went to start position and the car ran, but not very well. Shut it off, turned the key on and the pump kept running continually. Also sounds like a whining sound coming from the top of the air manifold. Also when I pulled the inlet air hose, fuel came out the throttle body. Any ideas? any help will be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. chromeitcycles

    chromeitcycles Karting

    Nov 9, 2005
    58
    Jacksonville,FL
    Full Name:
    Rob Davis
    I guess no one has an answer. So today I went out to figure out the problem on my own. Turned the key on and without starting the engine the fuel pump kept running. Turned the key off and pulled the air cleaner lid off and air filter out. I noticed the air flow metering plate was in the down position, so I took a magnet and pulled it up. Turned the key back on and no fuel pump running, went to the back of the car and pushed down on the plate and the pump started running. The plate would not stay closed on its own. Took the bolt out of the middle of the plate and cleaned the area with carb cleaner. The lever that attaches to the plate would come back up, but when I attached the plate back to the lever it would not stay up on its own. So the question is? What keeps the lever up? I know when you go to crank the car vacuum pulls the plate open or down. This is starting to become a fire hazard, I had to pull the plugs to get all the fuel out of the cylinders and blow out the exhaust because of all the fuel in the muffler. I have taken the fuel relay out and disconnected the coils until everything has evaporated. Any help or advice?
     
  3. johnny308

    johnny308 Karting

    Dec 3, 2011
    151
    Greenfield, MA. USA
    Hello,

    Is the blue safety switch unplugged?

    It sits on top of the injector distribution housing.
     
  4. chromeitcycles

    chromeitcycles Karting

    Nov 9, 2005
    58
    Jacksonville,FL
    Full Name:
    Rob Davis
    It is plugged in I checked that first. However I have not checked for power on that lead.
     
  5. chromeitcycles

    chromeitcycles Karting

    Nov 9, 2005
    58
    Jacksonville,FL
    Full Name:
    Rob Davis
    This morning I went out and unplugged the blue connector on the top of the fuel metering block, the pump stayed running. Plugged the blue connector in a and pump stopped. Go to start the car and it cranked but did not run good. So I shut it off and went to key position ll, pump still ran until I pulled the airflow metering plate up. The pump shut off. I took the fuel relay and the car cranked up and ran until the fuel in the cylinders ran out. So best that I can tell is the metering arm that keeps the metering plate closed is operated by fuel pressure from the pump. The pump is brand new (even though that does not mean anything). I have not put a gauge to measure the fuel pressure. I was thinking about changing the fuel filter to see if that would help. Still looking for help or suggestions, thanks
     
  6. chromeitcycles

    chromeitcycles Karting

    Nov 9, 2005
    58
    Jacksonville,FL
    Full Name:
    Rob Davis
    I went out to work on the car again, like I said with the key in position ll the pump runs unless the metering plate is up. Also I have found if you disconnect the cold start valve the pump will run without quitting until you plug it back in. Swapped some like relays around and made no difference. Also if you take out the Start Valves relay the pump will shut off. When you crack the metering line banjo bolt should it have pressure without the car running? I know in an electronic fuel injector it should, but on a constant flow the injectors would bleed down...hence no pressure..true or false?
     
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,826
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    This may indicate that the center plunger in the FD is sticking -- and, if it isn't free moving to let the airflow measuring arm return to its proper rest position, the safety switch would (wrongly) remain open, and the fuel pump would run with just the key "on". If you had enough varnish/deposits/crude build-up to take out a CIS fuel pump that's not good news for the more intolerant-to-detrious fuel distributor internals. IMO, you should first crack open the cold start injector fitting (to ensure the system is at zero pressure), and then check the mechanical movement, smoothness, and return behavior of the airflow metering plate/device -- must be primo before worrying about anything else. If not primo, 1-800-Larry-Fletcher.

    For some time period, immediately after warm engine shutoff, the system is fully closed and held at a reduced fuel pressure of 2.7~3.0 bar IIRC by the Accumulator. It's a pressure a bit below the minimum injector opening pressure, but (if the airflow metering + plate + center plunger are working correctly and return to the correct position), the slits inside the fuel distributor are completely closed anyway. So "yes", if you crack open the CIS system plumbing, darn near anywhere, soon after engine shutoff = fuel will squirt out.
     
  8. chromeitcycles

    chromeitcycles Karting

    Nov 9, 2005
    58
    Jacksonville,FL
    Full Name:
    Rob Davis
    Thanks Steve for the reply! Did as you said cracked the cold start injector...lots of pressure there. Went to restart the car and the same thing pump kept running on position ll. Pulled the metering plate up to shut off pump. Cranked and ran for a few moments, not very well. Shut it off and disconnected the relay, restarted and ran fine until the fuel in the cylinders was burnt. I took off the metering plate and bolt out and the arm comes back up, but with the weight of the plate it will stay down. I think I am going to call the number you gave me. I think the metering valve needs to be taken apart cleaned and adjusted. The car sat for nearly 2 years while I did Medical treatments. I own a motorcycle shop, so I know the effects ethanol gas has on fuel systems, pumps and injectors. Will post any other findings.

    Thanks again
     
  9. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,826
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Larry Fletcher's (fletch62 here at FChat) website is:

    http://www.cisflowtech.com

    You can get the "real" phone number there.
     
  10. chromeitcycles

    chromeitcycles Karting

    Nov 9, 2005
    58
    Jacksonville,FL
    Full Name:
    Rob Davis
    Pulled the metering block, piston was stuck in open position. Called Larry and he said to send it to him for a rebuild and calibration, so off it goes. He said as many of us know the bad effects of Ethanol fuel that sits too long. I am also replacing all the injectors.
     

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