Iain Tyrrell has mentioned sodium valve failures in his popular youtube series so not sure UK cars are immune to this issue? Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
In about 1975 I did my 1st serious Ferrari engine repair on a 250 Lusso. It broke a valve in #12. The old timers all told me to get a good look because I would see the same over and over. When I was technical writer for Forza Magazine Jess Pouret, the very well known Ferrari historian wrote me a letter telling me he had changed all the sodium valves in his GT4 to avoid one breaking and asked me if I advised him doing the same in his Boxer. Timing belts dont break and neither do Ferrari sodium valves. Its all a ploy so mechanics can pick the pockets of Ferrari owners. You cant fix stupid.
I get that, and it totally works for a lot of folks, which again is an admirable quality for sure! But me? I'm not really technically oriented, and most of whatever they would tell me would probably break my brain after traveling in one ear and out the other. lol Okay, maybe not that bad, I just didn't need to know more. I called other mechanics in my area and discussed the same findings with them and got quoted roughly the same price from all of them (although some were considerably higher). That's good enough for me to pull the brake and wait until I'm in a better spot to afford this. I just don't need more detail than what I already have. When I get it fixed, then they can tell me everything about it when they have it opened up. I'd probably even want to go down and see it, take pictures and video. I mean, I am interested, but I can wait until it's actually being repaired for all the nitty-gritty details. I hope I'm not coming off as ungrateful or anything worse, that's definitely not my intent. I've been fairly public about this and have had a surprising amount of well wishes and support from the Ferrari community. That has blown my mind and I honestly couldn't be more appreciative of that. A lot of folks are asking very detailed questions and wanting to know more information and technical details and I just don't have those answers, and to me it doesn't matter at this point because it's very simple in my eyes: Engine broke. Expensive fix. Yeah, that's oversimplified, but that's really all I need right now. Maybe I just don't look at these cars like other people? I don't know. My decision is made, I'm getting it fixed. It's more than just a car to me and I don't need anything else to make that decision. That's how I am with everything - if it breaks, I get it fixed. It's just a matter of "when" and "whom" at this point. My enjoyment with these cars comes from driving them and sharing them with other people, it doesn't come from repairing them. Tinkering, sure, but not anything substantial.
1st - don’t try to start the car any more. I can’t believe your mechanic tried to start it knowing there’s an issue. I say do the oil analysis first because if there are shavings or microscopic specs of metal in your oil then you know it’s everywhere - like every bearing OR it could be isolated. I’m sure you can drain your own oil and collect a sample. This is why the 308 group is the best, because we will help. Also there also borescopes with lcd screens on Amazon for $35. It would be interesting to see what he said was in there. If you could get some screenshots and share here. I wish I still lived in the bay because I would come help you like someone from here helped me over a decade ago and set me off on a journey that started with statements like you have above. @yelcab …. I learned to love learning about my car. From the tech world where software is so intangible, being able to fix something mechanical is so gratifying. I have to say the $30k quote is no bs because they are factoring in the unknown and that’s legitimate. BUT if we do a little snooping and help you as a group we can at least make educated conclusions, which is more than we have now. also a life lesson- with the number of cars they built and the people on here, almost any problem has occurred before.
How do you expect a mechanic to isolate the cause of an engine making a noise (that stills turns over and that they didn’t hear first hand) without replicating said noise? If something catastrophic occurred, trying to start/running an engine briefly isn’t going to make the end result material worse (generally). A lot of baseline diagnostic testing requires turning over the engine (compression, leak down, boroscoping the cylinders, etc). Finding the cause of a noise without hearing it is like flying blind. Diagnosing an engine problem via oil analysis is like trying to diagnose what’s wrong with your knee via X ray instead of MRI. It will only tell you that something is wrong, not what how or where.
I actually do have a borescope, so I might try and see what they saw, or if I can see something more, it's a fun tool to use. Not sure when I'll get around to that, maybe this weekend since it's a long weekend. We'll have to see how ambitious I'm feeling!
Christ, I did a GT4 engine 20 years ago. That is a long time, I know. If you have any questions, contact me.
I enjoy TIAFO garage videos, Sorry to hear about this. Sounds like you have a good plan to save up some $$. Will take time, but the car will get fixed. Also, gives you the opportunity to replace sodium valves. If needed.
@dyerhaus , I saw your name on a BaT thread from last year for a green 75 Dino gt4. Sorry to bug you, but I’m actually looking at that exact car which is now in LA, at beverlyhillscarclub. You wouldn’t happen to be familiar with the situation would you? Just curious why it’s there, when it was just purchased on BaT less than a year ago. Thanks in advance for any possible info. Steve
I've always wondered about buying from BHCC. They often list near market value but offer something that needs "work". This one looks like the bottom half would be swiss cheese after visiting a media blaster. It would be cool if you saved it, but a lot of work. Are you going to restore it? it looks like it needs about 30-50K in bodywork and repaint. And we know nothing about the mechanicals...
Hey Steve! No bother whatsoever, I love talking about these cars! I don't think I actually knew that car was at BHCC, very interesting. So, obviously, I don't know the story behind it—why it's now in LA at BHCC. I'll reiterate what I said about it in the auction—I didn't see any red flags at all, the car condition looked consistent with the story that was being told, and without seeing it in person, driving it, or having it inspected by a professional, I can's make any real assumptions on the mechanicals of the car. When it was on BAT, I thought it was a solid car with a well documented history. Yes, it needed some love if you were looking for a something concours level, but I think it might have been a perfect driver's car. That being said, it does have some obvious rust, and that will eventually need to be addressed. As for BHCC… well, you really have to know what you're looking at, the folks there won't know anything about the cars they're selling (by that I mean the history, condition, etc.). They simply buy a car and try to flip it, in most cases they do absolutely nothing to the car, they simply acquire it and put it on their lot. Bring a professional to look at the car if you go there. I've never bought anything from BHCC, but I think it's a cool place to visit and the staff there is totally open to you doing whatever you need to do in regards to inspection of the car. It's odd that it's there, and they're offering it for less than it sold for on BAT, so I'm wondering what they were able to buy the car for?? You'll notice the BHCC ad never speaks about how the car actually runs or drives, it just mentions features and things like that. I'd hate to think anything catastrophic has gone wrong with the car, but I would be a little skeptical now that it's at BHCC. But… if you're in the LA area, or can easily get there, I think it would be worth checking out.
Just for some added perspective… Depending on where you go and how much body work is actually needed and how far and good you want them to go with a paint job, you can easily spend six figures on that alone. My paint job was close to $65k, and buddy had his 308 GTS repainted at about the same time and his was a six-figure job. Obviously, it can be done a lot cheaper, it just depends on what you want. I think you're pretty spot-on with your estimation of $30k to $50k (but I would definitely lean towards the higher end with the rust). For mechanicals, and assuming the worst, say the car needs a full engine rebuild, depending on condition and what all really needs to be done, that can range from $30k to $80k. I fully expect mine will fall in the $50k to $70k range (and I will be finding out very soon). All this (paint and engine) are assuming that the shop is doing all the work, and you would be doing nothing to prep for it (much like me!!). In other words, it would be crazy easy to quickly dump over $100k into the green car at BHCC after buying it. It would be really interesting to know what BHCC bought it for and what's wrong with it (since it's being offered for less than it sold for on BAT).
@dyerhaus thanks so much for the input. I’m thinking of flying over there to check it out. Although the guy I spoke with did actually send me a couple of short videos of the engine running and a quick drive. If I pursue it, I’ll certainly post my experience here along with photos.
Personally, I love it! I swear nothing seems to grab more attention than a green 308 GT4 these days. I think that shade also looks fantastic. If it runs and drives, seems stable, then I wouldn't hesitate—but that's just me. All the documentation that comes with it is just a gold mine in my opinion, that's one of the big things that attracted me to my car when I bought it—well documented! If you can get the story out of them as to how it ended up at their dealership when it was sold just a year ago on the other side of the country, I'd really love to hear how that happened. Every car has a story!
I actually love it too, especially after watching about a hundred videos of the GT4. I wasn’t familiar with it up until about 3 days ago, and never even considered that a Ferrari might be attainable for someone of relatively modest means. The more I read about the Dino, and this particular one, the more attractive it becomes.
@fischpeople, Sorry to pop any bubbles but I’ve seen the car up close at my house during a Dino event that I host. The owner bought this car on BaT a year or 2 ago. It’s at BHCC for a reason. Even if you get this car for $25k it’s not worth checking out. Image Unavailable, Please Login
There was actually nothing good about it but the color it wore. The paint was shot, carpets shot, seats shot, rubber shot. Rust bottom of the doors, lower front fenders. Motor ran like crap even supposedly after a bunch of work. And was definitely not running on all 8 cylinders. The owner didn’t even make the short drive I scheduled, electing to ride in another car, which really opened his eyes. I called the owner when I noticed it in BHCC, basically he said he cut his loses and moved on and would have been waaaay underwater with this car.
I'm no professional, but the videos make it sound good. But after reading what @classicalfas wrote, I'd be very weary of it—he knows his stuff! And since he's seen this one in person, he would definitely have a better prospective on it than I would. That's the thing that sucks about buying something on the internet—things can look and sound good, or at least acceptable, present well… when in reality they're not. I'd say this, if you're looking for a restoration project, then that seems to be a good candidate (but the price is a bit high for that). If you don't have the skills/talent to rebuild the engine, reupholster the interior, and perform a mechanical restoration, then know that body/paint work likely be a minimum of $65k, mechanical restoration probably $70k, and I have no clue what the interior would cost as that's not something I've tackled yet. But I suspect it's not cheap either! That being said, I think if you're willing to do that, if you have the money, then more power to you—it would be great to see that car be as spectacular as it can be. I'd personally love to take on something like that, but it's not in my budget. Hell, fixing my car isn't in my budget, but I'm doing it anyway. When it's all said it done I will undoubtedly have at least $160k in my car. I hate that because it's a lot of money, but I don't hate it because I love the car. What's "worth it" to some people, definitely is not to others. Only you will know if it's worth it to you. But based on what @classicalfas noted above, I'd say expect the worst.
Ok, I went through my texts with the previous owner, he had a well known mechanic here in NY check out the motor. This was the answer I got. I did x out the names. Hey Pete! Good to hear from you. Yes, I sold it. XXX was supposed to buy it back from me but that never materialized. It was running rough and I had XXX take a look at it. He did a compression test and he said it needed work.I didn’t want to invest the money to make it right. Anyhow, i asked XXX if he knew anyone that wanted it and he said he would ask around. I decided to sell it and move on. I would wait a bit longer for a better car to come along and not let your emotions get the better of you. If you still want to see the car, have them do a compression check, better yet a leak down test before you invest any time and money. Good luck in your search.
Even if the motor checks out, you’ll still have to contend with the body, it’s rust issues and full interior. A friend did his Dino at a real nice shop, it had minimal rust at the rear valance corners and that was $30K plus. It was a glass out color change and he fill the side markers. With the amount of rust on this car, figure $40k easy for body and paint. The math doesn’t add up. Pass on it.
