308 GT4 Headlights Intermittent Problem?

This stuff is REALLY good to spray on questionable connections and switches.

It has brought stuff back to life for me many times.
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Page L26 of the 308GT4 WSM (also) shows that relay D should be the Stribel SR9833 -- where do you see the 308GT4 WSM calling for the ...113 relay? It isn't a disaster to use a ...113 in that relay position, but it will muck up the "parking" light function -- not the parking/running lights as we call them in the US, but the specialized function that just turns on some of the running lights for parking on narrow streets (more of a thing needed in Europe) -- although I can't find a reference to such a parking light switch listed in the instruments and controls section of your 100/74 OM, it is specified as item 36 in the 100/74 OM schematic. The correct alternative for the Stribel SR9833 would be the "oddball" Bosch 0332015006 (the one that usually has a capital "K" marked on the outer metal case).

No -- it does confirm that the switch controlled by rotating the knob is working OK.

Are your exterior running lights working when the headlights are not working?

If they are = remove that relay D, and connect a jumper wire from terminal 30 in the relay socket to terminal 87b = the exterior running lights should come "on" (just as a quicky retest). Then (reusing the same jumper), connect terminal 30 to terminal 87 in the relay socket and move the stalk to the low beam and high beam positions and see if the headlights work (the pods will stay down). If they do work OK = buy a new relay D; if they don't work (or are intermittent) = then go in and clean the switch contact under the turn signal/headlight switch assembly. (Terminal 87 and 87b are equivalent function-wise, and often they get mislabeled/swapped on the schematics, so don't worry if it turns out that 87 operates the running lights and 87b operates the headlights.)

If the exterior running lights are also not working = report back, and we'll go down that rabbit hole...

Here's a photo showing the switch contacts (that might need cleaning) that are underneath the turn signal/headlight switch assembly:
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I had trouble with the lights on my 328 much like you are discussing, and, like was mentioned above, I sprayed electrical contact cleaner at the base of the stalk where it makes the electrical l connection in the steering column and haven't had trouble with my lights since.

 

The Ferrari stalk and contacts for lights during this period of production are all needlessly complex and a complete disaster to R+R. The brass contacts that swing with the stalk wear out. Mine were pretty worn. Just keep in mind that if you want to jump into cleaning/polishing the contacts, you're diving into the world of many flying springs, shooting and rolling ball bearings, contacts, etc... (You'll want to search google for the 330GT owner's site about making a little tool to hold the ball bearings.)


Whatever you do -- if your buckets are going up and down well DON'T REMOVE THE KNOB!!! The brass contacts in there get bent very easily and are impossible to get back into position.

 

Touch relay D with a finger while turning the stalk knob "on":

If you feel relay D "click" on (when the headlight pods come up), but none of the lights (headlights nor running lights) come "on" = measure the voltage on terminal 30 of relay D (while it is still plugged in and the stalk knob is rotated "on") = it should be +12V. If not = check the connections at the large 4-way power distribution connector.

If relay D does not "click" at all (when the headlight pods come up) = that's bad (and must be fixed before worrying about anything else).

The electrical contacts inside the steering column have nothing to do with the operation of the running lights (so I wouldn't go there yet).

PS Having a Bosch ...113 or a Stribel SR9833 in the relay E position is OKish (but the Bosch ...113 would be the better choice).

 

Correct (if you unplug relay D).

When you rotate the stalk knob "on", this energizes relay D closed:

terminal 30 is always +12V (from the 4-way connector)
terminal 30 is connected to terminal 87b = turns "on" all the exterior running lights (front, side, and rear)
terminal 30 is also (independently) connected to terminal 87 = supplies +12V power to the stalk lever = no headlights if stalk in uppermost position; turns "on" low (dipped) beams if stalk in middle position; turns on rely E, which turns "on" the high (main) beams if the stalk is in the bottom position.

 

If you remove relay D, none of the exterior lights will work -- relay D controls ALL of the exterior lights as dedscribed in post #9.

 

It's great that somebody is putting the steps on this down in here. I had the same issue and it was a relay or relays but I moved so many of them around I'm not even sure which one of the new ones (at least 3 of them) I put in made the difference. Once it started working I immed stopped overthinking it and it's worked ever since!

It was a couple of yrs ago and at the time I chalked it up to either one of my new relays being faulty or the classic 'I'm not sure if the orig owner re-wired this incorrectly'-or both haha

I'm sure the issue will eventually return and I'll be pulling this thread up immed

 

There is a quasi-convention to automotive terminal numbering, but they can be designed to be used otherwise (for example, sometimes 30 and 87 are reversed) -- for relays:

30 = usually the +12V power to be supplied to a downstream gizmo

87 = the terminal connected to terminal 30 when the relay is actuated

87a = the terminal connect to terminal 30 when the relay is not actuated

87b = connected to terminal 30 when the relay is actuated, but not connected to terminal 87 when the relay is not actuated (that's what makes this relay a little bit oddball/unusual/rarely used and different from the ...113 relay where the two 87 terminals are always connected together regardless of the state of the relay coil)

85 and 86 are always the connections to the actuating coil inside the relay

other common terminals:

15 = +12V key "on"

50 = +12V when starting

1 = the minus side of the ignition coil

I'm sure that if you google something like "automotive terminal numbering" you can find a typical Bosch list...

 

Hello Robert,
Yes, I definitely still restore these switches.

Sorry I was unable to respond when you needed help, but Steve seems to have got you thru the problem!. I just got back yesterday from 2 weeks in Italy starting with a Ferrari Factory tour of course!!


Unfortunately, most of the time we were kept so busy that I just couldn't get internet access.

 

Go ahead and use the turn signal, trust me, you won't wear it out!! It's the least likely to fail part of the switch!!! AND it's a lot safer than hand signals everyone's forgotten about!

In spite of sammyb's post, I have been restoring quite a few switches/year for 10 years and have only encountered a single digit number of the sliding U contacts with significant wear.

I do have metal forming dies and can supply contacts made out of a heavier gauge brass than the OEM ones. See: post #9 of this thread:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/technical-q/21548-headlight-aka-column-cluster-switch-switch-stalk-repair.html

The biggest column switch wear item is the turn cancel ring. Other than a bit of lubricant, there isn't anything that can be done to reduce it's wear as it that turns with the steering wheel. I do have molds to make replacements for the several turn cancel ring variations.

The most common column switch failures are the stalks breaking out of the pivot (switch) end noses. This is due to the plastic nose drying out & shrinking down on the incompressible metal stalk. Unfortunately there isn't anything you can do to prevent this other than keeping the interior temperature down by avoiding parking in the sun, and/or using a windshield sunscreen.

re: COLUMN SWITCH REMOVAL:
The switch is fairly easy to remove once the steering wheel hub is removed. You have to remove the cover for the wiring harness that runs along the bottom of the steering column, unplug the 3 connectors under the dash, remove the housing from the column. The housing is usually held with a single fastener at it's base. The switch is fastened inside the housing with a pair of slotted or Phillips head screws. You can easily pull it far enough out of the housing to examine it, but completely removing it from the housing requires removing the pins from the connectors. Most people just send me the switch in the housing.


re: FERRARI FACTORY & MUSEUM TOURS
I understand, it was at the top of my 'bucket list' ever since I bought my car!!!

Unfortunately, Cameras were prohibited during the Factory tour, but I will post the numerous pictures taken in the museum to an album on Unobtainium's Facebook page. Just 'like' Unobtainium Supply Co. on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Unobtainium-Supply-Co/322805308326

The pictures most likely won't get posted until next weekend as I'm buried in a large backlog of Unobtainium orders & eMAIL.

As part of the tour I received a Ferrari 2012 yearbook. I haven't had a chance to look at it, but if it contains some factory pictures I'll scan & post them as well.

 

Hi All

Glad I found this thread. I recently bought a GT4.

My passenger side inner headlight wasn't working. I checked the lamp and fuse. All OK Was about to go onto next step of checking power at various points but was out in the dark last night and lo and behold, it was working. So I'll check a loose ground connection.

However, with light switch in position 2 the inner headlights (mainbeam) are on, and as In understand it they should only be on in the bottom position (111).

From what is written earlier in this thread is this controlled by relay D?

Might that be faulty? If a replacement relay is the route to go I am unclear what is the one I need and what manufacturer might currently be available, and last but not least, where to find one, preferably in UK or Europe though that might be the least of my worries :-(

 

Thanks Rob

I am beginning to understand all this. Have been advise that as the car has pretty much sat idle for a year, and in the previous few years the headlamps were hardly used, the relay may just be sticking and may benefit from a good tap.

As the car doesn't live with me (no room) I have to wait till Sunday to try this out. Meanwhile I have the driver's door card at home and am well progressed in making a fix to the L shaped piece of trim dropping off.

 

I suspect this is not going to be so simple. Having now played around with the fuses and relays (which is complicated by the fact that the layout seems to bear little relationship to that in the owner's manual) I am beginning to think the problem lies in the column switch (ouch) as the inner headlights are on in both dipped and main, but get brighter when in main (ie through the relay). So they are getting voltage in both switch positions which is not good news.

So next step entails some hard brain work and the use of the multimeter!

 

Hello all, I am looking to replace original relays with new ones on a USA 1975 DinoGT4

As Steve states above the Dino308GT4 Work Shop Manual calls for Stribel SR 9833 in position D and E. I however have the original metal Bosch 0-332-014-113 relays in position D and E.

I am also unable to locate the Owners Manual referenced item 36 "parking light switch".

Do any of you 1975 USA series1 owners have this "parking" light function -- not the parking/running lights as we call them in the US, but the specialized function that just turns on some of the running lights for parking on narrow streets (more of a thing needed in Europe)" feature?

Do any of you lads with Euro's have this "parking" light feature?

If so does this mean only the Euros require the Stribel SR 9833 relays and the USA should have the Bosch 0-332-014-113 relays in position D and E?

Thank you!

 

Issue can also be in the Stalk Handle itself. If there is hesitation, stutter, sensitivity at touch, confused what it should be doing try cleaning inner contact points inside the black handle. Also be sure to inspect Plastic Tab inside back of Handle which operates to act to separate Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Points when rotated.