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308 GT4 starter motor problems

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by maurice70, Dec 20, 2005.

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  1. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

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    #1 maurice70, Dec 20, 2005
    For those of you that don't know already I have rebuilt the engine in the GT4 and I'm at the final stage and I have run into a problem with the starter motor.The car started fine before I tore the engine down and rebuilt it and last week before I put the starter back in I decided to have it rebuilt as the solenoid housing looked a bit rough.I had the auto electrician rebuild it and today when I put it back in when I turned the key over the solenoid would not disengage and the starter would remain running until I disconnected the battery.We checked the wiring and all seemed ok.I put a volt meter on the solenoid cable and when I turned the key it would give me 12v and when I let go of the key it would give me no voltage.I pulled the starter off and tested it on the bench and it seemed to work ok.I re connected the wiring to the starter motor with the starter motor not connected to the engine and it worked like it should.Put it back on the motor and it still wouldn't disengage.I gave it back to the auto electrician and he is going to look at it tomorrow.Does any one have any ideas?Personally I think that the spring that returns the solenoid to rest isn't strong enough to disengage while it is turning the flywheel.What do you guys think?It's so frustrating as I'm so close yet it seems so far away Thanks in advance
     
  2. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #2 ferrarifixer, Dec 20, 2005
    Possibly a problem with the gears meshing too tightly... did he change the bendix gear?

    Is the flywheel ring gear all ok? original??

    Have you messed with any of the car wiring/ign switch etc?
     
  3. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

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    #3 maurice70, Dec 20, 2005
    As far as I know he didn't change the bendix gear.Just the solenoid and new brushes.The flywheel was machined because we put a new clutch in and is all original.The wiring tested out ok as we did a dry test with the alternator on the floor hooked up to the car wiring and it engaged and disengaged ok.I thought to that it could be the ring gear and the bendix gear tolerance might be to tight but when the starter motor is in the car and I turn the ignition over the starter turns but wont disengage even if you take the keys out.When you pull the battery terminal off it kills the power and releases the solenoid.Then when you reconnect the battery the solenoid is disengaged until you try to kick it over again.I thought if the ring gear and the bendix gear were sticking then the solenoid shouldn't disengage and upon recconecting the battery the solenoid would have to be pulled in.I hope I'm making sense and thanks Phil for the imput.Keep throwing me suggestions
     
  4. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #4 ferrarifixer, Dec 20, 2005
    Can only be something to do with the rebuild..

    solenoid might be sticky... especially once loaded. Get it re-re built!

    Examine it inside the solenoid/lever area for signs of friction.

    I put a few 328 epicyclic starters on 308's in the past. Transforms them. They're much smaller, easier to fit and are all round better.
     
  5. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #5 Newman, Dec 20, 2005
    Ive seen on other brands of cars where the motor spinning just after cranking as it spins down can back feed and power the solenoid, thats a long shot and ive run into it once and corrected it with a diode, just keep it on your list of odd ball once in a life occurences for future reference.
     
  6. ham308

    ham308 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
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    Richard Ham
    #6 ham308, Dec 20, 2005
    Just an idea. Maybe you can put some shims between the starter and the engine to move the pinion away from the flywheel, or move it up or down so that it is basically thrown out when the flywheel is driving the starter.

    There was a post in the past for a similar problem on a 208?
     
  7. JTranfield

    JTranfield Formula Junior

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    #7 JTranfield, Dec 20, 2005
    Are they a lot lighter as well?
     
  8. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #8 ferrarifixer, Dec 21, 2005
    Much, nearly half as I recall.
     
  9. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

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    #9 maurice70, Dec 21, 2005
    Ok guys thanks for the replies.Phil I gave the starter back to the auto electrician and he changed the solenoid on it.Put it in the car this afternoon and it kicked over and disengaed when I let go of the key.Personally I think he orignally put a "good second hand" one on it and it gave us problems.Then today he must of put a brand new one on and we had no problems with it.Of course he wont admit it but thats my theory anyway.Oh and we tried shimming the starter yesterday but it didn't do any good.On a side note I started the motor today for the first time and it started straight away.Tomorrow I will recharge the A/C and drive it home.It's been along time and I'm looking forward to see how it goes.Again thanks to all you guys.Oh and just another thing I've become an expert at removing and refitting the starter motor on a 308GT4 :D
     
  10. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #10 ferrarifixer, Dec 21, 2005
    Thats good then. No worries.

    Drive it home?? Have you re-jetted/timed to suit the mods/rebuild and tuned already??
     
  11. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

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    #11 maurice70, Dec 21, 2005
    Phil all done and dusted.Rudolph tuned in the carbs and checked and adjusted the timing.The car was running for over 1/2 hour and I was surprised at how quiet it was at idle.Tomorrow all I have to do is put the ar filter and ox bck on,put he oil cooler housing back on and top up the A/C gas charge.I did alot of the sh*tty gritty work including remove and refit and clean up of all parts and he did the rest.It will be test driven first obviosly and the rings will need bedding in but I'll wait and see about re jetting.I will post all the photos in a seperate thread when I get a chance to resize them.Phil what are your views on the run in period?
     
  12. Watry

    Watry Karting

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    #12 Watry, Dec 21, 2005
    Two ideas:

    1. SPICA mechanical-injected Alfas have an electric cold-start solenoid on the injection pump that is activated in the ignition switch Start position, its power taken right off the same starter solenoid wire. Sometimes you can get a feedback loop going that is only broken by disconnecting the battery. The standard fix for this is a relay in the line. Is there anything in the GT4 starter circuit that might be causing similar feedback?

    2. Also, if the ignition switch contacts are sticking in the Start position, even when you move the key Back to Run, the starter will remain engaged. Do you know that your ignition switch electrical contacts are OK?

    Andrew Watry
     
  13. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

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    #13 maurice70, Dec 21, 2005
    Yeah Andrew we checked the car electrical system including the ignition switch and it was all ok.I only had the starter motor reco because it was out of the car during the engine rebuild otherwise prior to that the starter worked fine.The auto electrician took the starter motor back and changed the solenoid again and it started straight away so I can conclude that the original solenoid that he put on was a dud and the new one he put on worked ok.Thanks guys
     
  14. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #14 ferrarifixer, Dec 21, 2005
    I reckon 1000km is minimum. Then oil change and cut open filter to inspect.

    Valve clearances and head torque should be checked before 3000km ideally.
     

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