308 GT4 steering rack mount bushes | FerrariChat

308 GT4 steering rack mount bushes

Discussion in '308/328' started by maurice70, Oct 12, 2006.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    4,334
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    maurice T
    This is a warning to GT4 owners out there that the series 1 cars have a different mount and bush to series 2 cars and the rest of the GTB/S series.The early GT4 uses the same mounts and bushes as the Dino246.If anyone wants pics of the early mounts pm me and I will email them.I cant post them here as I am ot of attacment space alternatively go to the Ferrai UK website and browse the spare parts catalogues for the 246 and GT4.The factory GT4 spare parts manual is based off a 1979 series 2 model which shows the other type of mounts and bushes
     
  2. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms
    Just finished doing a series 1 rack. We ended up fabricating the poly washers and mounting sheet as the OE had completely dissolved. The metalastic bushings from the factory are quite good but the rubber washers and mounting sheets are too soft. Appears they used a latex based rubber (just a guess based on how they dissolved) for these that did not hold up very well.
    The early style provides a far more positive mount but is a PITA to rebuild compared to the later style. I have used the early type to upgrade many of the vintage English race cars rack mounts with great sucess.

    Dave
     
  3. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    I just did a GT4 2 weeks ago... I simply made steel "top hat" shape spacers up on the lathe to solid mount the rack to the chassis, and then change the stud and nut arrangement for a normal nut/bolt.... you don't even need to remove the old buggered bushes from the housing, which is difficult/time consuming as they're in a blind hole. They're now redundant.

    Makes the steering much more precise too.
     
  4. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    4,334
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    maurice T
    Phil was it a series 1 or 2?Did you still use the backing rubber between the chassi and the mount?I'm thinking of making one up out of urethene.Doing it your way would certainly make the job easier.Removing the rack was a real pain.What is the best way to refit?Do I put the rack in then fit the mounts or do I pre fit the mounts to the rack and try and install it that way?Thanks
     
  5. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    Series 1, Dino badged car, with small parallell black bushes not larger tapered (pink) ones.

    I deleted all rubber mounting components entirely. (Well, the buggered bushes stay in, but are redundant). The rubber sheet, everything, all gone. Solid mounted.

    You still have to remove the rack almost entirely, as getting the stud part out requires pinion disconnect from column.

    Took me 5 hours to remove rack, convert mounts and remove studs/swap to bolts etc, clean and prep, refit and align, Road test.
     
  6. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 23, 2006
    11,998
    GMT -5 & GMT +1
    Full Name:
    Dave
    I had Norwood Performance replace the ones on my series 1 car with mounts they machined.
     
  7. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    4,334
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    maurice T
    Thanks Phil I will do the same
     
  8. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    Be sure to measure twice, machine once!

    My machine shop made me just one set, but I left the drawings with them, so if you need some more, just holler. It'll take a couple of days to get done.

    FYI, you'll need 8 parts total, 4 big top hats, 4 small top hats. My shop charged me $100, and I provided bolts/washers/nuts etc. I could have done the machining myself in about an hour, if I had the lathe/material... which is my next investment.
     
  9. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    4,334
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    maurice T
    Thanks Phil for the offer.I have access to a lathe at the workshop so I'll turn them up.On another side note when I pulled the A-arms off to do the bushes I noticed that the shims in between the lower and upper ball joints were shimmed all the same except for the upper drivers side.On the passenger side upper and lower had two shims either side of the upper and lower ball joints while on the drivers side the same was for the lower but the upper had all four shims on one side(the side being the closest to the rear of the car)Now being that I am changing all the bushes including sway bar and rack has been reconditioned including new tie rod ends and I have also replaced the lower ball joints on either side should I when I put it all back together put it as it was or reconfigure the top drivers shims like all the others before I bring it in for alignment?Also one other quick question as for refitting the tie rod ends is ther any number of turns that I should do to try and get it as even as possible or is it just by eye?Thanks and sorry for all the questions...
     
  10. 78-308gt4

    78-308gt4 Formula Junior

    May 22, 2005
    735
    Memphis, TN
    My steering has no or extremely little play, has good road feel, but seems to follow every contour of the road and bumps can almost pull the wheel from my hands. My question is, how does it feel when the rack/bushes are going bad?

    My car has 70,000+ miles.
     
  11. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    The ball joint shims are purely for adjusting Caster angle. Of course, a perfectly aligned chassis and car will have perfectly symmetrical shims... but none are.

    However.. I always put two shims each side of every ball joint, then trim caster at the same time as camber, using the lower camber shims for BOTH caster/camber. You effectively swing the lower ball joint back/fore with camber shims. The only time I deviate from this is for modified cars, when I move the shims to extremities for full catser... you can get about 6 deg instead of 4 std.

    Tie rod end turns depends on camber/ride height a lot... but about 13 turns is ball park territory... less for more neg camber cars. What IS important, is that the rack is in the middle of the car... your tie rod ends should be within a turn of each other even at the end of the job... if not, you've probbaly got your pinion alignment wrong...

    Also... check your steering column alignment.. the amount of cars I find with mis aligned Universal joints is quite alarming... and indicative of poor understanding of mechanics. UJ's must be perfectly aligned with each other.. as they change "velocity" (Hence CV joints) as they turn, if out of alignent, this will put loads on the steering and make it feel VERY different and basically bad.

    Make sure your aligner can read Caster LIVE... every adjustment effects the others... you'll need to go round in several circles to get it right...check every adjustment before you finish the alignment...ie.. if you tweak the toe at the end.. re check camber/caster again.... don't check/set caster unless the toe is close anyway...., don't adjust camber without re-checking caster/toe etc etc...

    ...then do it ALL again after 100-200km to be really sure all new bushes have settled properly. (for economy and practicality reasons, I usually drive a freshly bushed car around the bumpiest road I can find for about 30 minutes BEFORE I align it. Somtimes they're virtually undrivable without the alignment done)
     
  12. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    check your tyre condition/pressures first

    Then align it. Sounds like you've got toe out on front.
     
  13. 78-308gt4

    78-308gt4 Formula Junior

    May 22, 2005
    735
    Memphis, TN
    Tire pressure was the first thing I checked regarding this problem. When inflated correctly the problem lessened but did not go away. Then I had all 4 wheels aligned when I initially got it home (4,000 miles ago). Again little or no effect.

    It could very well be tire condition, however, as the previous owner had induced severe negative camber on the rears. This caused the tires to wear on the inside edge. These tires were then at some point rotated to the front. Forgive my ignorance but could this induce the same effect as toe-out?

    At any rate, it's good to know that it's probably not my steering rack.
     
  14. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    yes, absolutely.

    Why people run around on tyres they know to be no good is utterly beyond me.

    Tyres are THE MOST important thing on a car regarding safety and performance...

    change them for new, and teach yourself a lesson by getting the BEST tyres available.

    You'll learn AND appreciate it!
     
    cdbody likes this.
  15. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    4,334
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    maurice T
    Thanks Phil for all your help.I finally got it all together and all finished..well just about.This is what I have done so far..Replaced all front bushes including sway bar bushes,removed steering rack and rebuilt and refitted,replaced front shocks & shock bushes and replaced the front brake hoses(thanks Carl).I still have to torque up the bushes and have the car aligned.I also have to replace the rear brake hoses as one of them has a slight leak.Ive got new ones and will do them tomorrow.I will do the rear soon.I'm still awaiting on a set of rear shocks.I have all the bushes and have already replaced the sway bar bushes but will also upgrade the rear sway bar when I do the rear.Also more than likely replace the rear springs.The worst part about this job was removing the steering rack and refitting it.The actual refitting of the rack was ok since I modded the rack mounts as you suggested but the aligning of the steering was a real pain.I didn't take any pics because (a)There are enough pics of this job already on board and (b)my hands were to greasy and dirty to touch my camera :D
     
  16. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes

    good work..

    just to confirm the column stuff... your column should have the steering lock operate with the wheel dead straight ahead, the UJ's should be in perfect alignment to each other, and once connected, there should be exactly equal amount of turn from lock to lock each way, and the tie rod ends should be very close to equal turns on the tie rods.

    You'd be amazed at how many aren't like this...
     
  17. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    4,334
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    maurice T
    Thanks Phil yeah the steering column lock operates at dead straight steering and the UJ's are aligned.There is equal amount of turns from lock to lock and the tie rods which are also new have more or less the same amount of threads left over.I have aligned it by eye as straight as I can see.Just another thing regarding the steering shaft where the UJ's are I still had a little play in the steering maybe a few mm either way which I felt was coming from the steering shaft.There is a 25mm nut in between the two UJ's that tightens the splined shaft that I tightened up a bit and the play has gone.Is this ok to do ?Thanks
    PS:Thanks for supplying the steering rack bush:)
     
  18. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    You're welcome (rack bush)

    Installed a quick rack today. (Glass 308, had to change whole rack for type with alloy housing both ends, as it had the steel tube type previously which is non compatible with quick rack)

    Goes from 3.25 turns lock to lock to 2.33.

    FYI.. with 2 deg neg camber, tie rod ends are about 10 turns on.
     
  19. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    4,334
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    maurice T
    Phil what about the the nut in the streering column was it ok to tighten it?
     
  20. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    Yes. It only needs to allow slip for installing the pinion onto the rack. Although, tightening it has fixed the symptom, not the cause...

    Your splines are worn, as usually, they can be loose enough to slide without being slack.

    No big deal, but keep an eye out for spare try carl888/ebay, or even Moretti
     
  21. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    4,334
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    maurice T
    Thanks again.So which part exactly do I have to look out for?Is it no.2 or no.3 in the spare parts manual Tav.36.....or if you dont have the spare parts manual handy the female end closest to the steering wheel or the male end closest to the steering rack?
     
  22. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    Yep, both bits, and the big nut, and also the cotter/taper pin (39 etc)

    There are really soft, and getting them out often destroys them.
     
  23. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    4,334
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    maurice T
    ouch..I just had a look on the owners site almost 500 pound for both!Well I've tightened it up and it seems quite firm so unless one comes up on ebay.......................
     
  24. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    I haven't dealt with F-UK since Malcolm West left, and Jeff Howe before him.. but in the good old days they'd often negotiate.

    Now, there's a worldwide Ferrari policy to NOT supply independant specialist like myself outside their own coutnry. So, for that, they've lost my (not inconsiderable) business.

    Major major marketing faux pas. I hope someone at F-UK restores fairness and democracy, but right now there's hypocracy and restriction of fair trade.
     
  25. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    4,334
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    maurice T
    Yeah Malcolm was good.He's still there but not at spare parts so I was told. He did a good price for me on a camshaft when I rebuilt last year.I've spoken to a guy called Stuart and he seemed to be helpful
     

Share This Page