308 GTSi belt service | FerrariChat

308 GTSi belt service

Discussion in '308/328' started by Newman, Sep 4, 2011.

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  1. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #1 Newman, Sep 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Im doing a belt service on an 81 308, thought I would share some pics and my findings.

    The car arrived at my place because of a major coolant leak but as with most older ferraris, there are always other things to do too. Engine was rebuilt in 93, the reciepts show 1 sleeve, 4 exhaust valves, pistons, bearings etc. I suspect because of the sleeve it might have had an exhaust valve fail prompting the build. The gearbox was rebuilt by ferrari in 2004 for the low low price of $24K! They replaced so many hubs and gears, forks, bearings etc I couldnt believe my eyes. The box shifts nice but the car doesnt run well, it misses and is running rich.

    So the coolant leak was a blown hose under the plenum. Before the intake came off I could see the plenum gaskets hanging out causing a vacuum leak. I removed the plug wires and extenders, 4 bad extenders and 4 new extenders. The four bad ones have the typical pin holes with arching marks. (ill take pics of them later, I forgot). I checked the sensor plate height, right on the money but the HC adjustment hole is still plugged off so ill have to extract that later on when I set the car up.

    Timing belts were done in 2004, they look fine but they're overdue on time, the tensioner bearings look old, possibly from when the engine was built in 93? The injectors are steel, I ordered the brass ones, theres history showing one was replaced but no note of which one it was. Could use 8 updated ones anyway so I ordered them and the seals.

    Waterpump was leaking a bit, its due for a rebuild anyway so ill look after that. I see a generous helping of orange silicone everywhere which has always been a sign of poor workmanship or amature skills in my opinion. Orange silicone never looks good even on a small block chev so why use it on an aluminum engine like this? Anytime I see orange silicone on an engine I know ill find some other display of bad workmanship once I start digging.

    Rear header has a cracked primary tube, ill weld that for now and the owner will source a replacement for the future. Rear timing cover is also cracked (pics later). The car should run well when im done correcting all the electrical leaks and fluid leaks. Ill set up the CIS using my gas analyzer, curious to see the PPM before I adjust anything and ill interested to see if teh cam marks all line up because I saw some paint marks on the cams and seals.
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  2. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #2 Newman, Sep 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Found the leak! Check out the small washer sitting on the timing case waiting to fall into the belts. Not that that washer would cause the belt to come off but it might take a chunk out of a tooth and it may even fly around after going through once and have another go at taking out another tooth. Its just beter to not have that washer sitting there in the first place. I always account for every bit of hardware on a job, prevents headaches down the road.
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  3. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    that orange kunk is everyone on that thing -

    must be a sweet gearbox at 24k Ouch !!!!

    Cant wait to see the pics Paul - good job for making another car right :D
     
  4. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #4 Newman, Sep 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    Does this require an engine out for all the things you're going to do?
     
  6. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    No it doesnt, its pretty straight forward stuff in chassis. Ill remove the cams to replace whatever shims I need (if needed) as well as the seals.

    My pleasure! I find you cant have too much spare hardware in stock for any of these cars, I keep a bunch of plated original fasteners on hand because chances are washers are wrong or missing, same goes for nuts and bolts.
     
  7. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #7 Newman, Sep 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Cracked timing cover.

    4 new extenders and 4 old extenders, why not replace all 8 at once clearly it needs 4 more.

    You can see the pin holes on the outside as well as the arching marks on the inside. Difficult to see in the pics but you can see half way along the wire loop theres a dark mark and a blueish mark on the inside of the extender right next to it. One extender is arching up at the top (two small cracks).
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  8. 4right

    4right F1 Rookie
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    "Found the leak". Do you think!

    I love watching these threads, I am confident that the car will be running perfectly once you are finished. Great work!
     
  9. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Thanks Stan!
     
  10. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #10 Newman, Sep 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Orange silicone strikes again and along with it comes a shortcut - holding the rotor bolt in. The threads appear okay on cam and bolt for the rotor but the bolt was loose. Ill have to figure out what they were trying to achieve with the silicone blob. Also note chewed ring nut on air pump pulley. Cam timing is on the mark on all 4 cams, actually slightly retarded due to cam belt stretch ill verify the positioning with the new belts which I expect to correct the current alignment. Ill check valve lash next then remove the cams to replace all the seals at the very least.

    Cracked primary tube on rear header, its been welded before approximately one inch upstream of the current break. It needs a header, new or used.
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  11. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #11 Newman, Sep 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  12. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #12 Newman, Sep 5, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Cams back in, new seals, set lash, belts on and new tensioner bearings. Ill rebuild the water pump next. The rear belt tensioner was held on with three flat nuts and two regular washers. The front tensioner had 3 nylocs with wave washers so I replaced the three flat nuts and washers as well as the bearing nyloc nuts because they had little lock function left to prevent them from backing off. The front tensioner locking bolt was in the wrong position when it was snugged down in 04 so the round part of the bolt head took a bite out of the aluminum mount. Im waiting for a replacement rear header (euro) and a rear timing cover so I turned my attention to the 246 for now which is a change of subject but interesting too I hope!

    Engine was rebuilt when this basket case was dropped off. I was told the lash was set as was the cam timing but it was suggested I double check it since the lash was set with the head off. No biggie, shouldnt change but its good to check. .037" clearance on the first exhaust cam lobe I checked and .008" on an intake lobe. I think the machine shop stretched the truth slightly! I have to probably pop out all the shims now. Its not so bad on the 308 or boxer with timing belts so I pull the cams and change the required shims but on this I have to do one at a time with the cams in. The last shot is just an earlier shot with the just finished cam covers.
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  13. star4747

    star4747 Formula Junior

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    You know Paul.....

    If you ever lose interest in Ferraris, Cognac, Cigars you will make a great photographer!

    It is fascinating to see just some of the stuff that can go wrong with a 308 like mine. Can you share how many miles are on this car?

    Seriously - please keep posting pics and data - great info.

    Rick
     
  14. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
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    That's one nicely-restored 246...

    continue on with the 308.

    Good work!
     
  15. stingraymyway

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    Wonderful work. I really enjoy reading threads like this. A wealth of knowledge shared.
     
  16. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #16 Newman, Sep 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Euro header vs US header. Im told its Euro heres the P/N if anyone wants to check. Timing covers on, water pump rebuilt, valve covers on, hoses replaced, injectors replaced. Ill install new plugs tonight and maybe have it running this evening. Ill set up the CIS after Ive run it up to operating temp.
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  17. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

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    Wait, you're almost all done with it??

    Damn!! I didn't get a chance to put my 2 cents in yet. :)
     
  18. BRADAN

    BRADAN Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Great thread!
     
  19. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #19 Newman, Sep 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks but im no photographer! Ill stick to fixing cars and enjoying cigars etc :)

    118,000kms on the odometer, 18K actually but its rolled over once.

    Injectors removed to replace seals and injectors.
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  20. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #20 Newman, Sep 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    new brass injectors

    Note chisel mark in injector cup/nut in previous post above from some other shop that removed the injector the hard way. I unscrewed the assembly and simply pressed the injector out, picked the seal out cleaned the nut and put it back together by hand.
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  21. 4right

    4right F1 Rookie
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    Wow, its coming together nicely! Those cam belt covers look great!
     
  22. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

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    Newman, your work and this post are amazing. The covers do look really nice. They aren't painted are they? I know your not really into that. Just curious.
     
  23. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #23 Newman, Sep 9, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yes they were painted a long time ago but look good even being non-original, I like them.

    Finished the car today and road tested it, very pleased with how it runs. I can say that this injected car leaves nothing on the table compared to the carbed version. The power is there and it runs great! The car ran pretty bad when it arrived but it was simple to repair and get it running as it should. I want one and because the injected 2V cars are believed to be "lesser" than the carbed counterpart I think I can score a good deal on a GTBi. I really think these particular models are under appreciated.
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  24. 4right

    4right F1 Rookie
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    "I can say that this injected car leaves nothing on the table compared to the carbed version".

    Blasphemous!!!
     
  25. Fave

    Fave F1 Rookie

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    Paul, there is a euro GTSi available in Toronto, all service by Daytona, private sale, but he won't sell it for a song. It's pretty nice. I know you said gtb, but thought I would mention it
     

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