308 GTSi No Start | FerrariChat

308 GTSi No Start

Discussion in '308/328' started by Mille Bornes, Jan 22, 2018.

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  1. Mille Bornes

    Mille Bornes Rookie

    Jan 22, 2018
    4
    I am working on a 1982 308 GTSi which will not start. The battery is brand new. It cranks well but doesn't even attempt to start. Every once in a while I might get a small hiccup but for the most part it just cranks and cranks.

    I have spark on both banks. I have fuel. Lots and lots of fuel. Thinking it might be flooded, I pulled the fuel pump relay and cranked it over quite a bit, while holding the throttle open. During this time I got more sputters than usual while cranking but still nothing. Once I had done this for a bit, I left the fuel relay out and sprayed a bit of starting fluid into the manifold. Nothing.

    Other bits of information: Initially I didn't appear to be getting any fuel. The fuel pump relay and the start valve relay were both clicking rapidly while cranking. I disconnect the air flow switch, right after the airbox, for the time being and now have fuel whenever the key is in the "on" position. The fuel pump relay just clicks once, on, when I'm cranking now.
    I pulled plugs on the rear bank and they seemed fine, aside from being soaked with fuel. I did replace them with new plugs, just because I was in there.
    I took a fuel sample and it looks perfectly fine and ignites easily.
    I pulled one of the distributor caps and it also appeared fine. A little corroded but I cleaned it up and it has made no difference. And, again, I have spark to all cylinders.
    Also tried cranking it without the air filter, just in case it was severely clogged although it looked fine.

    From what I was told this vehicle ran perfectly fine a couple weeks ago. However, it sat outside in the snow, and I was told a lot of snow made it's way through the vents into the engine bay...

    I have fuel. I have spark. I have air. As far as timing, I'm not sure but I don't see what sort of issue I could have there. Considering I have spark on both banks I can only assume the crank sensors are working properly.


    Any ideas? I am a competent mechanic but am really only familiar with newer cars and this happens to be my first Ferrari. VW and Audi are more my specialty :)
     
  2. 19055

    19055 Formula Junior

    Jul 19, 2014
    493
    Netherlands, Europe
    Full Name:
    Emile
    I had almost exactly the same problem with a 4 cilinder Alfa Romeo 75 Twinspark. Fuel, spark, oxygen, all there. Called in the cavalry. Appeared to be a bad connection from the grounding cables to the cilinder head (which looked perfectly fine by the way ), " confusing" the motronic unit which kept sending " full ahead" to the injectors, flooding the plugs. New grounding cables fixed the problem. You could check for faulty grounding. Good luck !
     
  3. Mille Bornes

    Mille Bornes Rookie

    Jan 22, 2018
    4
    Thanks! I actually did clean up the ground on the bottom right of the engine. I'll have to try to find the others. This is all new to me and our source for repair data doesn't have anything for Ferrari, or other exotics, so I'm at the mercy of the internet
     
  4. cmt6891

    cmt6891 Formula 3

    Feb 25, 2008
    1,338
    Encino, Ca
    Full Name:
    Carl T
    Based on all you described as being in good working order it could be the fuel injectors or A/F mixture. An exhaust analyzer would give you the indication.
     
  5. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,354
    Northeast, PA - USA
    Full Name:
    Wayne Martin
    If the two statements: Running okay a few weeks ago. Had been under snow fall. Are true. I would check if the two digiplex units got soaked and also had a bad ground. They are in the back driverside trunk and may gotten wet.
     
  6. tinterow

    tinterow Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2014
    1,339
    Houston, Tx
    Full Name:
    Chaya Tinterow
    Dont overthink! Check your vacuum lines...especially the one going to the warmup regulator.
     
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,909
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Based on your report that it seems flooded, one other fairly simple item to rule in, or out, is the cold start injector. You can just unplug it to disable it electrically, but it can also fail mechanically so that's a little more involved to remove it and confirm no fuel escapes when unplugged and the fuel pump running. Beyond that on the fuel side, you'd need to start looking at the cold and warm WUR control pressures -- you can get a copy of the 281/83 Mondial 8/QV WSM here:

    http://ferrari.cdyn.com/

    which has a pretty good explanation of how K-Jet works (Chapter D) and some other Bosch CIS materials. Alternatively, a shop that specializes servicing older Volvo and/or MB should be able to investigate (they also use Bosch CIS K-Jet). Good hunting!
     
  8. Mille Bornes

    Mille Bornes Rookie

    Jan 22, 2018
    4
    Thanks for all the replies! Regrading injectors or AF mixture, it just seems very unlikely to me that every injector would suddenly failing is very unlikely. Even if half of them died I would still expect the car to at least try to start. As for AF, that's a very good possibility but I'm not sure what I can do about that when it doesn't run. Also, I have no access to a gas analyzer.

    All my vacuum lines seem to be fine. I checked the ECUs and they also looked fine. The metal plate they are secured to was wet on top but the units themselves looked perfectly fine. I cleaned their grounds and also ran the additional ground wires I just read about.

    I have tried with the cold start injector unplugged but that hasn't made any appreciable difference.
    I'll have to take a look through the documents linked, thanks for that.


    I was also told that, before the engine was blanketed in snow, the fuel relay never used to click while cranking. As I said, with the safety switch on the fuel distributor plugged in the fuel relay clicks rapidly, unplugged it just clicks on with the ignition. I have come across a few threads about the fuel relay clicking like this but the fixes seem to be all over the place.
    Do you guys think that the clicking relay is something worth worrying about? I figured I could leave the safety switch unplugged until it actually ran and then worry about the clicking relay, if it actually was an issue.
     
  9. Mille Bornes

    Mille Bornes Rookie

    Jan 22, 2018
    4
    Also, as I mentioned earlier, I checked spark using a timing light. Just now I pulled a wire, put a plug in it, and grounded it to the engine. The spark seemed kind of weak to me. I also only had spark while the plug was touching the engine. If I put even a little air gap between the plug and engine the spark would not jump it. It was able to find its way through the wire insulation to my hand though :confused:

    I do have a 328 GTS here as well. It looks like the ignition system is the same so maybe I'll swap coils and see what happens.
     

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