Is there a man hour (flat rate) schedule available for the 308? This 78 jumped time on the ( of course forward) exhaust cam. Thanks Jason
If you’re looking for time required to perform that job, I’d say someone who is very familiar with that engine could get it done in 6-8 hours.
When were the belts last replaced? Is there an AC compressor on the front bank? Is it time for a valve adjustment? Just saying there might be more involved here.....
There can always be "more involved" - these cars suffer from a terminal case of "you might as well" and "while you are in there" as we all know! If all that's needed is a belt change then in the UK there are Indis who advertise or will quote specific pricing for just the belt change if that's all you want (bearings can be done, little extra labour, just the parts costs usually). Of course its usually combined with an annual service (again a specific cost in many cases) but it is often priced as a specific thing e.g. £560 for a 308/328 belt change at QV London according to their web site. That would include new belts & new V belts as well. In the States it seems that its not so easy to buy a fixed item service like that?
the valves were adjusted and the belts replaced in 2011. The car has gone less than 1500 miles since. Belt tension is still correct and the intake cam remains properly timed. I believe all four exhaust valves are bent,as there is no compression on the front cylinders. and there is excessive clearance on the valves. The cam seems to have skipped 3-4 teeth. The cats were both melted down. I've done this job three times before, but in the '80s/ '90s, long before I was 74 years old with arthritis, but if memory serves, I would love to know how its done in eight hours. The AC compressor is mounted to the belt cover. One clue: it was last driven by a seventeen year old male. Jason
Sadly, you'll need quite a bit of (paid) disassmbly before a tech is going to offer an estimate on repair and replacement of damaged parts. Otherwise it would just be a blanket quote which may not apply to your car, once the full story is known.
Engine needs to come out to get that head off realistically. Its just not even worth trying to do otherwise.
I am sorry to hear of your trouble. This thread should be merged with the 'Can I re-use my old timing belt thread' It only had xxx miles. Good luck on your repairs. It will be expensive and time consuming task.
It's unrealistic to expect a flat rate quote for the extent of work such as is required in this case on a 40 year old car. A simple belt change yes but not for anything as major as what is going to be needed here. The only way to quote a flat rate on this and survive would be to ridiculously overcharge you. If it's any consolation I'm sure the 17 year old has learned his lesson and won't do this again.
Jason, The silver lining is that none of the exhaust valves broke and chewed up the head. There is no easy way around this and it is worth changing all the exhaust valves to non-sodium if the originals are still in there (and guides if they are worn.) While it is out, change the 2nd synchro if shifting was problematic, drill a vent hole in the shifter shaft blind hole, drill an oil return hole near the cam seal, put new cam drive bearings in if any play, new shift shaft X seal, check diff seals (my '79 seals were hard), change all rubber lines/hoses while engine is out, etc. Where are you? I can help with some of the parts. It took me about 2-3 hours of on and off work just to get the heads off as they were seriously stuck on (and I was scared of damaging them.) good luck! derek
Derek, At the moment I'm having trouble contacting the owner. Maybe he thinks it will heal itself if he waits long enough. Be that as it may, I'm in Wasilla, Alaska, and I would like to talk to you about the mods you suggest etc. I can be reached at 907 376 2188 most any day. We're one hour earlier than pacific time. Jason
A lot of it is detailed in my thread: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/dereks-308-engine-rebuild.535247/ I'm in the UK now but happy to chat. Also check the cam pulleys as the 40-year-old plastic ones tend to have cracks in the "fences" (belt guides.) I can get you new cam pulleys in aluminium ($350) and have new valves ($15ea.) I could lend you the ring nut sockets and sleeve puller but it may be cheaper to borrow from someone in the US as shipping will be far more to/from here. cheers, derek
Yup that is a lot worse than was first explained. That is an engine out job and who knows what else it might needed when the head comes off as the piston crowns may have been cracked and there may be head damage for the bent valves as well. That is a major job. Sorry to hear that.
Ferrari did print a Shop Schedule for the 308. But it might be near uselss with all the 'what you don't knows.'
"Be that as it may, I'm in Wasilla, Alaska," I saw Rick Nelson perform at the state fair in Wasilla back around '86. Sorry about the car.
I must apologize for not making myself more clear at the beginning of this thread. I've done this job 3 times before, and what I was looking for was the shop time to R&R the power train and pull the head so I could tell the customer it's going to cost at least X$ to pull the engine and the head. After that, grab your socks because there could be minor or massive expense, depending on how much damage has been done. I seem to remember that Bill (?) at FAF in Atlanta told me the factory paid 38 hrs to R&R the engine on an emissions car, which seems a lot until I remember what a joy it was to do, but then it was 25-30 years ago. Mike- I was at that concert too. Small world. Jason
Rough Estimate: $2000-3600 labor to remove motor, pull heads, put heads back on, and put it all back into the car without doing anything else.
Ferrari did print off a service schedule book for the 308, it's out there on the interwebs... From memory and having done this a few times figure 16 hrs to R&R the lump, nothing else. bench tear down and re-assembly is going to be another 45~50 hrs. That's provided everything is in decent to good condition, unfortunately after a couple decades things are not so and time goes up as parts replacement does to. Quck and dirty I'd say he's looking at ~60hrs of shop time not including parts provided corrosion is to a minimum. To do the job including a bit of restoration work... well that can get into the hundreds of hrs. Not to mention once the lump is out the access to all the hoses and other bits that are near impossible to get to also increases the cost but is well worth it as now is the time to do it. The 'ol shipwrights disease problem.
