First, Jonathan (Birdman), it is almost the end of January. What's the big news! Now, down to business.. O.K. you experts, please weigh in.... THE CAR: 1978 , 308 GTS, Carbs baby! THE SITUATION A/C Compressor removed Timing belts 1 yr. old Water pump belt good condition, good tension Alternator belt good condition, good tension Cold say 28 degrees F Choke on Start, running rough for about a minute at 2500 RPM When . Squeal like a banshee for about 20 seconds & stop Car warm in about 5 minutes, hot idle cam lets go, engine about 1000 rpm Purrin like a kitten , no more squealing until cold again On warmer days, it may or may not squeal and it isn't as loud or as long. THE QUESTION What the heck is making the noise? If it were the alternator belt, shouldn't it do this right away instead of waiting a minute? If it were the water pump belt, why the delay and what is the load? (bearings about to go?) Thoughts? -Rjay
on a 77 alt and WP on one belt.....once burned or worn it'll squeal when cold only......replace and deglaze all pulleys also.. If you have two belts that's a later config.... More worrisome, did you replace both tensioners as recommended with timing belts?....always do this for piece of mind..... Belt dressing (on fan belts ONLY) doesn't soak into the poly belts but WILL quiet pulleys short term.....scuffing V grooves and fresh belt(s).is the perm. fix.....
it's slipping as revs climb during warm idle......my guess.... BUT a tensioner seizing up can make the similar squeal!
Also, IMO on the hard material of our poly belts, it's almost impossible (to me) to see much difference between a fresh one and a (burned) glazed one! Not like on softer rubber where the wear and cracking are more dramatic... I've actually removed and sanded both v groove AND belt to solve similar squeal, but that's the Roadside Park Only solution...and of course increasing tension on the reinstall per Owner diagram....
LOL! In my case it's code for: "Throw the old belt in the trash and sand the pulleys with emory cloth.." I dunno if this is the official method or not but my 1977 v pulleys were polished like glass by years of use, I figured knocking that off would help the belt 'bite"......really the tension is the most critical part and it's harder to get right than on rubber where you feel them 'pull tight".... Our plastic belts are either 'just right' or 'slipping' and once they slip and heat they are trash....
BigTex, Thanks for your reply. Yes, I changed the tensioners- brand new from Dennis Mcann. I sincerely HOPE it's not them. It is one belt. I don't know what I was thinking. It has been a year since I was in that area. The belt idea makes the most sense but I am trying to understand why it would wait about a minute to start to squeal i.e. why not right away when the stiction and resultant friction is so high? -Rjay Artvonne...LOL!
Accessory belts are funny. They can seem tight enough when they're not. even the alternator belt, which you think would effect the alt. output when squealing. It doesn't always. One note on the water pump belt: if yours is like mine, too tight and your water pump will not be long for the world. There's an optimum tension that you need to be. Too loose and the WP won't spin right; too tight and the bearing gets excessive wear and a year later you need a new pump. If that's the belt that's squealing, do NOT make it tighter to see if it goes away unless you know it's loose. Best is to replace it and make sure you know how tight it's supposed to be. Ken
That was my original question Ken, as on our older cars it's ONE 7mm belt, about the width of a fettucine noodle....rotating BOTH alternator and water pump off the crank......it's a d@mn hard working piece of plastic! Bearing troubles on either device can glaze it........there's a specific deflection dimension on the long side
I have exactly the same problem. Something in the engine compartment starts squealing at about 2000 rpm after the initial cold start and continues until the idle comes down and/or I drive the car for about 20 minutes and it gently fades away. Does not come back until I cold start after the car has completley cooled down. I'm not wrenching my own car so I'm going to have to wait until I can take it to my F-mechanic to figure out what the problem is. I hope it's just one of the fan or air cond belts both are not that old.
It's amazing Colin used two belts when one would have sufficed. A rare instance of a Lotus with extra weight and extra parts!! LOL Sorry about my assumption there's two. Ken
The reason I had to ask.......many early cars have been updated with later pulley sets that divide the loads.........no worries! A nice set of billet pulleys would solve my glazing troubles as well!
More accurately it's 'two belts' vs. 'three belts' as the A/C compressor was dedicated from the start, as one...... *splitting hairs*
I wouldnt worry about it to much. Its probably just a sticking timing belt tensioner bearing squealing on the cold timing belt. Seriously though. Anytime you hear something squealing like that it needs immediate attention. Its probably not a timing belt. But even if its just an alt. belt. If it shreads it can get wound into the timing belts and shrink your bank account post haste.
I also have a '78 308 GTS. There is just one belt for the water pump and alternator. This thread describes a really cool tool: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107474&highlight=gates+belt+tensioner I got one and it's great. Helps eliminate the guessing regarding tension. As for the squeal, I had that too, suddenly one day. For me, it was the coolant hose up at the thermostat that had started leaking. The coolant dropped on the belt and it slipped and started squealing. Just something to look for. And it's not like it was a gusher or something. Just a weep and it caused the belt to slip. Seamus
Stand by....the first production part is supposed to show up next week. they are late! It's gonna be COOL though!! As for your question....it really does sound like the WP/alt belt loose. I would start by replacing that belt (cheap) and retensioning it. Birdman
Seems to me since it happens almost as soon as you start the engine: Why don't you remove the waterpump/alternator belt, if it stops, the belt is loose or bearings going out in the alternator or waterpump. I would use a pulley on a drill and put a belt on each by it's self and the drill to reproduce the sound. The alternator should checked with the key 'ON' so there is an internal load on the unit. If it does not, remove the AC belt, if it stops, the belt is loose or the bearings are going out in the AC unit. If it does not SHUT OFF THE ENGINE AND SERVICE THE TIMING BELT(S) AND TENSIONER BEARING(S) NOW!!! On cars with an air pump check First ( I had a 1979 Porsche 928 that the air pump in 1985 -only 6 years old- FAILED. NOTE make sure the drill is rotating in the correct direction for your orientation to the engine. Trying to help stephen
Good ideas for troubleshooting Stephen! Just remember not to run the car too long without the belt on the WP. Like no more than a minute or two if the car is stone cold. Birdman
