308 owner takes issue

I'd say the 288 GTO is the first true Ferrari Supercar as well.

 

Define super car?

 

BINGO!! Then the 288 (my favorite Ferrari of all time I might add)

 

i was thinking GTO as well, although TR didn't occur to me... What about the LM - does that count, after the GTO...?

 

Totally, the GTO for sure!!

 

MODERN Ferrari supercar = 288gto. you should make a poll for this thread!!

 

288 GTO!

 

You need a definition of "supercar" before you can determine if a car is one ?

 

As much as I like the 288GTO, what was track about it?

 

It was primarily designed to compete in a racerseries that never happened (Group B). It truly is a homologation automobile.

 

FIA announced in the early 80's about Group B racing. That's when the supercar series of Ferrari began with the 288GTO. If FIA had not announced, then there would not have been any of these F40, 50,.. Ferrari supercar series will never happen. 288GTO was a truely supercar even before the term "supercar" was known....

 

Without trying to defend the Forza decision: as some have said the 288GTO is a "O" (homologated) version of a race car to run a specific series. Its like the Maser 12, which was built to qualify for racing but despite it being fast and all it was not built as a road car, neither was the GT"O" .

So in strict terminology the F40 would be the first "Supercar". I personally see the GTO in the same lines and in general it is accepted as part of the Supercar series. By definition it is not. Neither is a Formular One car part of the "Supercar Series" or a P3 or P4.

As for the Testarossa, well that depends on the Supercar definition. It was at one time the fastest production car, which is a title to have, same as the 550 Maranello, but does that make them Supercars?
I think the F40 was never the fastest production car of its time, neither is the Enzo.

 

I always felt that today´s supercar-scene was started with the F40. It made performance a raison d´etre, it trampeled political correctness in every way and a lot of cars followed in here wake (and apart from later Ferrari´s and the McLaren F1, no car came even close).

 

OK I accept that the idea of the 288GTO was intended for Group B, a follow on from the Michelotto 308's...but all 288GTO's built are street cars.

As far as street legal race cars go, all Ferrari race cars (not Formula cars) up until the 250LM were street legal. And was the F40 really designed as a race car...or rather a road car that lent itself very nicely to a bit of track time?

And the term supercar was coined in the press when the Miura came out IMO.

Cheers
Simon

 

The F40 was presented as a roadgoing racecar and did very well on track (eventually). I think it´s fair to say that the F40 has a strong racing pedigree, allthough the racecar was derived from the roadcar, rather than vice versa.

 

Simon, the idea of homologating a car is that ist has to be built in a certain number AND be streetlegal.

The F40 was never designed to compete in a certain series. Building a "O" means building it as a competition car and then designing it to meet road standards. The F40 was built in the roadcar program but technology from their racing program was used in it. Much like a Challenge car is not a "O".

 

I know...it was a rhetorical question.

My point being, that the original poster defined a supercar as being a race car for the road. Neither the 288GTO or the F40 are these IMO. Or the Miura. All of which are supercars IMO.

 

"Supercar" - Over 200 mph top speed (15-20 years ago over 180mph), expensive, exclusive, and (very) limited production. Although an F40 is not quite "limited production," it unquestionably falls under the category.

 

The F40 was based on the GTO and the F40 is a supercar..therefore I contend that the GTO was also a supercar...my case rests....somewhere.

 

In the case of doing 180+mph 15-20 years ago, the first two Boxers meet the spec. 365GT4BB top speed 302km/hr, 512BB also top speed of 302 km/hr. So these must be the first Ferrari super cars. If we go back further I think most of them topped out at around 150-170MPH depending on gearing.

just my 2 cents.

 

The supercar term has nothing to do with the car being a track model or having any intensions of racing.

The term supercar was a horrible (I think) 80's term to define really fast road cars ... like the Testarossa, Countach, ie. fat, fast road cars that are built to defend the pathetic top speed battle they got into back then.

The 288GTO is ABOVE the supercar term because it was actually designed with a purpose, as was the 250GTO, TR and LM.

The term supercar really is pathetic and I bet came from some pre-teen spotty kid seeing a flashy road car and saying to his dad (who happened to be a car magazine editor) "Gee Dad that is a super car"

Thankfully the motor industry has matured past that horrible time, and we are back to making cars that have real qualities ... (ie. the Testarossa/Countach was close to useless as a race car in its day ... compared to the F550, F360, etc. that are actually quite effective on the track)

It is a shame that the F40 has the label of a supercar ... because it did eventually prove itself capable on the track, if only for short times.
Pete

 

I think that when the earlier post said GTO and TR, he meant the Testarossa sports racers and not the later production cars. Actually, all of the so called supercars have been production cars, albeit limited production. In Ferrari terms, I think you could start with the 410 Superamerica, 400SA/SF, and 500 Superfast. They were far more expensive (almost double) than all of the now more desirable 250SWB cars and produced up to 400hp. They competed against cars like the Maserati 5000(some equiped with leftover 450s 450hp race engines) and were purchased by royalty and capitani d' industia. All had production numbers under 50 and were no expense spared supercars!

 

I don't know. If you spent as much money on a Testarossa back then as they do now converting a 550 to a GT, I think it would have been just as effective.

What you think the 550 on the track now has any bits related to the road car (well maybe the door handles).