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308 pre 1981 vs. 308qv

Discussion in '308/328' started by arezzo, Mar 14, 2009.

  1. arezzo

    arezzo Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2003
    699
    Kuwait
    Full Name:
    SH
    Hello Everyone,

    Been researching these two model variants and gone through past threads but couldn't find something definitive on the two.

    As owners and enthusiasts which car do you feel is a better drive, fun to own and offers more pleasure per mile?, ofcourse I'd also like to know if you feel the fibreglass variant is better than the steel bodied carbed pre 1981 308s.

    If you'd like to also comment on current values that would be appreciated aswell and ofcourse pics would be welcome :)

    Thank You,

    S
     
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  3. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    20,700
    Fullerton, California
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    Jon
    Lots of questions here...

    The fibreglass Euro 308 (dry sump car) is probably the most desirable of the run, because it is lightweight and fast (relatively speaking). Values for 'glass 308s, like all Ferraris, depend on condition, but there is a U.S.-spec one for sale asking US$39,000 at Fantasy Junction. An extremely nice, low mile one sold recently in the $60K range in Salt Lake City, Utah.

    The 308 QV is fuel injected, and the interior was substantially redesigned, so it is going to have the better driveability (easier to start, lighter clutch, no fuel starvation in hard cornering) than a carb'ed car. Also -- although this may not matter in Kuwait -- if you have emissions regulations an injected car is easier to register. That's something we have to deal with in California. Throughout the 308 range, get a European car if you can. We got very heavy safety bumpers here, and catalytic converters and/or smog pumps (1983 only).

    The 328 was the ultimate refinement of the injected 308/328 run, and I would say that unless you like the sounds of carburettors and the collectibility of the fibreglass cars the 328 is the way to go, budget permitting. As an owner, my final decision came down to an '85 308 QV and an '87 328, and the US$10K premium was a bargain, the extra power and reliability being worth it.

    As far as pleasure per mile, they're all great. In fact I don't know of a bigger bargain in the sports car world than the 308/328. There is a huge jump in price for the "next step up" -- the Dino 246 and 512BBi.
     
  4. arezzo

    arezzo Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2003
    699
    Kuwait
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    SH
  5. arezzo

    arezzo Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2003
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    SH
    The one at Fantasy Junction caught my eye....so cats and smog pumps wouldn't be an issue with that one? Pre-1985 cars fall in the classic category so the emissions regulations don't come into play in Q8.

    I'll have to keep the 328 in mind but having owned a 355 before wanted to experience a carbed car.

    Thanks again,

    S

     
  6. Neonzapper

    Neonzapper F1 Rookie

    Oct 19, 2008
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    #5 Neonzapper, Mar 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
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  8. GeoMetry

    GeoMetry Formula Junior

    Apr 14, 2008
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    If rust concerns you then I believe Ferrari started rustproofing 308s in 1984. Perhaps not a problem on an early glass bodied car.
     
  9. arezzo

    arezzo Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2003
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    #7 arezzo, Mar 14, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2009
    Been going through some old threads and have to say I love F-chat, been on this site since 2003 and never been let down, Bullfighters posts have been a revelation so major kudos to him. My understanding so far has been as follows regarding 3x8s to look out for:

    1975/6 Glass Carbs

    1985 QVs

    1989 328s

    And ofcourse Euros are considered better than US specs due to cats and smog bog downs.

    Would you agree or disagree with this?

    S

     
  10. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    20,700
    Fullerton, California
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    Jon
    #8 Bullfighter, Mar 14, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2009
    That one looks like a U.S. car (heavy bumpers, extra marker lights, presumably wet sump). I wasn't enamored with the respray on that car.

    308s didn't get cats till 1978, IIRC. The disclaimer at the end of description is simply reminding buyers that all cars 1975-present are smog tested in California, and carburetted 308s are a pain in the a$$ here.

    Again, probably not an issue for you in Kuwait. If I were in your situation, I wouldn't bother with U.S-spec cars. Nick Cartwright in the UK has a seriously beautiful 308 QV in rosso rubino, red-insert seats, red carpets -- it would be hard for me NOT to buy that car if I lived elsewhere.

    To your other post: the 1989 328s have tended to command a premium because they are newer than the 1988 and earlier cars, and also had standard ABS. Aesthetically, I prefer the concave wheels of the earlier cars and the elegant all-metal door handles that ended in mid-1988, so personally I would pay more for an earlier car. But, the market likes the last 328s.
     
  11. magnum

    magnum Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2008
    864
    Barcelona, Spain
    Full Name:
    Antonio
    Hi Arezzo.

    I prefer the 308 QV instead of a 328, and maybe I like more the US version than the Euro. Is the best 308 and has the exact mix from modernity and classy style.
    And don't worry about more weight or a little bit less power. If you want to have hundreds horsepower under your right foot, go to buy a modern car. For sure that for the same amount of a 308 value you can find powerful and modern used sporty cars -with cheapest maintenance-. Is easy to find a used Porsche Boxter or a Mercedes SLK Kompressor for a third part of a 308 value -because these ones don't have the Ferrari 308 soul-. The 308 is a car to enjoy with. His lines, his style, the sound of the engine... The Ferrari heritage.
    I don't like my 308 to do spirited driving. I enjoy it all the time, cleaning, polishing, changing rusted bolts or old hoses... Maybe I can't express it clearly.
    Go to buy any 308 you want -in perfect shape of course-. You're buying a part of the history, a part of the Ferrari heritage -I'm not talking about quality or power-.
    Can you feel it?
     
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  13. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
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    They're all great cars. The 328 will command a good sized premium over a 1981 gtsi so you've got to really want a 328. The 328 is a little faster than the early carb's cars and the non-QV 308s but none of them (including the 328) is a screamer by modern performance car standards - plenty of Acuras, Subarus, Mustangs willl smoke a 328 in a drag race. It's like saying a 12-speed bike is faster than a 10-speed. Probably true, but a bicycle isn't a super speedy way to get around. The 308gtsi is probably the slowest, but who cares? Just sit back and enjoy the experience.
     
  14. Jkuz

    Jkuz Karting
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    #11 Jkuz, Mar 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    +1!!

    I personally prefer the black bumpers of the 308 over the colored ones on the 328, the concave wheels, and the older style interior of the 308 over the abundance of plastic in the 328. There's a lot to be said for more power and added reliability of a newer car, though, so if those aesthetic things don't matter much to you, go for the 328!
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  15. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    2,525
    I've been next to a 81 GTSi with my '78, and I couldn't pull ahead. We were rolling pretty good, and I couldn't support the 2Vi criticism. I thought that thing scooted quite well. Also, I was on the track dicing with a 328 against my '78, and I thought the 328 performed well, but could not pull ahead of me anywhere on the track. Now - the TR alongside me on the front straight approaching start/finish would pull on me making me feel like I was a bit slow / de-tuned, and the F40 would just walk past me when the throttle was wide open in 2nd or 3rd gear.

    I'm sure against a stopwatch, there's probably a difference, but from the seat of the pants, you need 150 (308 Vs TR) more HP or 250 (308 Vs F40) to really see a difference. I just love the way my 308 looks / sounds / feels etc. But I also love the 2Vi, QV, 328, Mondial, TR, etc etc. The injected cars (1981 2Vi, 308 QV, 328) start, and run so civilized, the carb cars have that great sound. Choosing a Ferrari - what a fun dilemma.
     
  16. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    2,220
    TN
    IME the 328 hasn't been more reilable than my QVs. I am not sure why everyone believes that. I have a 328 and have a QV (owned many QVs before that). My 328 has had more electrical problems than any of my QVs. The 328 fuseblock is expensive to replace also. The 308 fuseblock is less than $20 to make yourself. My 328 wasn't bogged do with high watt stereos, alarms etc. It already had the fuseblock replaced once. It had some fuel injection issues but since it is pretty much the same injection system as the QVs I can't say anything about that. Radiator fans quit working on the 328. Clock stopped working. The heater switches have given me problems. There are some other things but I can't remember off the top of my head. I honestly don't think the 328 is more reliable than a QV. Just my humble opinion. I would get a QV hands down over a 2V injected.
     
  17. mclaudio

    mclaudio Formula 3

    Dec 13, 2003
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    +1 particularly on the QV (Euro) over the 328. In fact, I sold a 328 and then later bought a Euro QV. My experience with reliability has been the same with both cars.
     
  18. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 26, 2005
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    #15 Bullfighter, Mar 15, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2009
    My 328 clock broke in 2005, and I replaced it. No other issues with the car yet, but I'd agree the 328 clock isn't as a durable as it might have been.

    Individual data points are tricky. In general, if you visit our local Ferrari shops in San Diego, you will see significantly more 308 QVs in for various repairs than you will 328s. I remember bringing my 328 over to Bobileff's for an oil change after I had bought it, and it was the only 328 there. I had the front bumper resprayed several months after that, and during the week the car was there it was still the only 328 around. Ditto during the major service last year -- I think there was one other 328 in for a major after mine. So I have several data points there.

    That doesn't mean a well kept 308 won't be more dependable than an indifferently maintained 328. But, the 328 benefited from many upgraded components, especially in the electrical category -- ignition system, etc. -- and mechanicals: 308 power windows are a lousy design. The 3.2 engine is more durable, although given how few of these cars have hit 100,000 miles it may be hard to quantify. Based on design/engineering, the 328 is the better car. That said, I'll defer to our FChat semi-resident techs if they post here.

    I've also seen several 308s out here, in dry California, with door rust and failing trim, while the 328s seem to hold up better (except that the seat leather is equally fragile on both).

    Individual data points are what they are, and there are ample posts on FChat that (dubiously) suggest 328s are more reliable than BMWs, etc. There are also 348 owners here who report zero problems after two years, so we could conclude their cars are more reliable than your 308 or 328. You have to take that all with a grain of salt. I almost bought a black '85 as I mentioned elsewhere, and I think it would have been a good car. But, given the finances I would definitely recommend a 328 first. That's what I was told prior to my Ferrari ownership, and I still hear it from experienced techs and dealers all over the country.

    The real quandry, for people like the OP, is that beyond the 308QV/328 there really aren't any Ferraris under $100K that are easy to recommend. I don't know where the next generation of relatively affordable, simple Ferraris will be coming from. There probably isn't one. The 348 is very affordable, and not overly electronic compared to what came later, but given its many design/engineering issues I can't recommend it as the safest purchase. And the 355, pretty though it may be, seems like a better car to rent than own. I thought the 360 might be it, but a friend here had the engine blow up in his yellow Modena after ~10K miles (and he now drives a Gallardo). We need more data as the 360 ages to draw any conclusions.
     
  19. blu308qv

    blu308qv Karting

    Nov 12, 2008
    97
    Florida
    308 QV Euro is a great car. Definitely the 308 has a better looking interior than all the plastic in the 328, but 328 is cleaner on the outside with the integrated bumpers. Its all a matter of person preference. Power-wise, I really never could feel the difference in the two cars driving. But technically the 328 has more power. Neither car is know for being a powerhouse. I also think the 308 QV will very soon overtake the 328 in the price department.
     
  20. arezzo

    arezzo Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2003
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    That was a great post, well thought out and rational.

    S

     
  21. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    2,220
    TN
    Thanks for the post. My experience has been different. My 328 has been less reliable than all 4 of my 308 QVs. My 348s have been ok nothing too bad. In all honesty the electrical system on my 328 has been terrible. My only problem with the 308s have been the fuseblocks which can be taken care of for $20.

    I don't live in San Diego so I won't be visiting the shop there but I hardly think that is a data point unless you know exactly why each car is in the shop and how QVs vs 328s are in the area.

    I think the 3.0 and 3.2 are both durable. I don't really see why you feel the 3.2 is more durable. I have over 130K miles on my 85 QV with the original engine and the heads have never been off. Now I do service my car often and take very good care of it. Plus I put quite a few of the miles on it myself.

    Not to argue but why is the 328 ignition better. It has 1 microplex vs 2 digiplexs but they do fail and when they do they are high $$$, just like the 328 fuseblock. Also doesn't the 328 have the coil amplifiers that fail (little black boxes by the coils). So while you only have 1 ignition box on the 328 you now have 2 coil amplifiers. Still has 2 distributors, rotors, caps, etc for US spec. My 328 has been fine with the ignition system but so have all of my QVs with the exception of a TDC sensor but the 328 has those also. Plus those darn heater switches break or the LEDs go out in them.

    Anyway, just wanted to state that because I really feel there are a lot of parrots on here that just repeat what they read/hear vs. actually experiencing. I have owned 8 308s, 1 328, 2 348s, a few Mondials and various other exotics so I have plenty of experience.

    Sorry to be off topic. Maybe my 328 is the exception more than the norm but I feel it is best to post real experience vs. hypothesis. I just wanted to say that I don't agree with all of the hype that the 328 gets vs. the 308 QVs.

    The best thing is to buy which one you like. Either car is a wonderful. If you get a good car you really can't go wrong with either of them. Just wanted to share.
     
  22. wazie7262

    wazie7262 Formula 3

    Feb 13, 2008
    2,357
    Temecula, CA
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    Scott
    When I was shopping for a Ferrari, Gary Bobileff told me there is really no reason to buy a QV when you can buy a 328. His point was that the 328 is simply a better car, doing everything better than a QV, although they are obviously quite similar. The 328 has about 100 upgrades, both for the driver and mechaninc, from the QV. I, too, prefer the "classic" interior with the toggle switches of the QV, though this has really waned for me over time and I'm now starting to see a good bit of "dating" in the QV interior, while the 328 looks a little more "modern". I have driven both cars and, again, they are quite similar; so similar, in fact, that it is rather hard to distinguish too much difference. But...the 328 is faster, brakes better, has the 288 GTO steering rack and thus handles a bit better, and has done away with those big black bumpers that I truly find dated and almost grotesque (especially the rear bumper; sorry to those who like them). The 328 colored bumpers, in my opinion, are a VAST improvement. That being said, the Euro QV's are very cool and I can certainly understand why someone would choose one of those, or a U.S. version if that's what floats your boat. As others have oipined, there is no right or wrong here, only what's right for you. I am now at a place where I would no longer really consider a QV but must admit that I do have a bit of a hankering for a fly yellow 77 carb car!

    As a finaly note, these are all old cars and they will fail at some point. The key is to buy with good reserves left over so it doesn't break your bank when this occurs.

    Best of luck!

    Scott
     
  23. tomkatf

    tomkatf Formula 3
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    #20 tomkatf, Mar 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I'd love a glass 308 someday and always like to read about about glass cars for sale... Parse me this... (from FJ's description)...

    "Included among this is the renewal of the engine in 2002 at Steve Harris Imports. As part of this process, engine number 00738 was supplied and used."

    Does this mean the original engine was replaced? Strange passive voice verbiage to me...

    In general responses to the above;

    Re: pre... post... 81... 308... QV... 328... I love my '85 308 GTSi QV... if you're only going to have one, I'd recommend that you get an open car AND DRIVE IT! ... there's nothing better than the feel and sound of a GTS on the open road in good weather. I'm sure a good 328 is a great car (Ferrari had 10 yrs of experience with the 308's by the time the 328 was designed) but I prefer the original style and feel of the 308 series, US bumpers and all. To me that's THE iconic 3x8 car...

    Had a great drive in East County San Diego this weekend, what a fantastic place to drive! Trying out an infrared converted camera... On CA79 heading North from the I8 towards Julian.

    Best,
    Tom
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  24. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 26, 2005
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    Brilliant photos. You might want to check in the SoCal section as I think some people are organizing a drive in Rancho Santa Fe next weekend. I'm sure they'd welcome your car and photographic talent. I may join up with them for lunch or afterward.
     
  25. magnum

    magnum Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2008
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    Antonio
    Good shots Tom!
    Is a digital camera or a film camera? Anyway, the 308 looks fantastic!

     

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