308 QV Head Gasket Replacement: Step by Step | FerrariChat
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308 QV Head Gasket Replacement: Step by Step

Discussion in '308/328' started by drunkenmaster16x1, Apr 2, 2011.

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  1. drunkenmaster16x1

    drunkenmaster16x1 Formula Junior

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    #1 drunkenmaster16x1, Apr 2, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hey all,

    After much overheating due to cooling system issues, the head gaskets on my engine have gone bad(water in oil/milky oil, car won't start, car dies at idle, water getting into engine). I have just begun work on replacing them. Rather than removing the valve covers and trying to torque the heads, I have decided to fix the issue all together rather than a temporary fix.

    Will post pictures as I go along.

    -Mikey
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  2. ME308

    ME308 Formula 3

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    #2 ME308, Apr 3, 2011
    sorry for your misfortune with the car...
    but great plan to post a step-by-step headgasket replacement write up ! ;)

    (had to do the same 7 years ago....soon after after I bought my car...but did not take fotos)
     
  3. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    #3 miketuason, Apr 3, 2011
    Mikey, just wondering, how many mile on your car?
     
  4. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    #4 Ferraripilot, Apr 3, 2011
    I love tearing stuff apart! Go for it and make it better. Any head work while they are off? Replacing the valves and guides could be a capital idea as long as they are off.
     
  5. Iain

    Iain F1 Rookie

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    #5 Iain, Apr 3, 2011
    Unless its got a lot of miles on it or is burning oil you'd hope that wouldn't be necessary with a QV - no Sodium filled valves to worry about either :)
     
  6. drunkenmaster16x1

    drunkenmaster16x1 Formula Junior

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    #6 drunkenmaster16x1, Apr 3, 2011
    Hi Mike,

    46,000 miles are on the car. Before talking with the guys at Norwood Performance and Boardwalk Ferrari, I thought the car wouldn't start due to weak spark; I replaced the coils and plugs to no luck and was advised to take the car in to have the Bosch K-jetronic system diagnosed as sometimes all it takes for this system to fail is just a tiny hole in a single hose or intake due to the car managing the fuel injection based on intake pressure...or could be major like a blown head gasket...which it was.

    Thanks all for your support-will probably pull the intake manifold off next before disconnecting leads and pulling the engine out.
     
  7. drunkenmaster16x1

    drunkenmaster16x1 Formula Junior

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    #7 drunkenmaster16x1, Apr 3, 2011
    The more and more I think about it, I might as well do more than just the head gaskets while the engine is out:)
     
  8. Iain

    Iain F1 Rookie

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    #8 Iain, Apr 3, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2011
    Careful when you pull the intake manifold. I prefer to pull the two maniflds and the plenum as one unit to make sure you avoid dropping the spacers down into the heads - although given that you are taking the heads off anyway its not such a problem if you did.

    To do this, if you remove all the nuts at the bottom of the manifolds & then loosen (but not remove) the 4 nuts under the rear of the plenum you can create enough play in the thing to lift off both manifolds and the plenum together.


    My 328's engine is out at the moment & the other things you should definitly do is have a look at the clutch & take the flywheel off to check the rear seal. Also get the starter & alternator rebuilt. Also consider having your exhausts coated. Obviously its also a good time to take the fuel tanks out to clean them out & change every piece of fuel & water hose you can find. Do the shift shaft seals too.
     
  9. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    #9 Nurburgringer, Apr 3, 2011
    Love these threads.
    We didn't take the heads off during the engine-out on my '85 last winter, but some of the things we did might give you some ideas (the list of 'while you're in there' is HUGE as you know...).
    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286145
    Regrets: not fixing the fuel gauge sender or stripping off the manifold insulation and ceramic coating the headers while the motor was out.
    good luck!
     
  10. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

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    #10 Nurburgringer, Apr 3, 2011
    At least get them checked. I only ended up replacing the starter solenoid and cleaning both up (37k miles), otherwise they checked out fine.
     
  11. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    #11 Ferraripilot, Apr 3, 2011
    If it's not burning oil, I would say the least you can do is buy a cheap valve spring compressor, remove the valves and springs and clean up the ports, valves, and relap the valves to the seats. Just doing that will make a world of difference and it costs you pretty much nothing other than labor.
     
  12. Iain

    Iain F1 Rookie

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    #12 Iain, Apr 3, 2011
    Mine have both just had new bearings, a new Reg in the alternator (which wasn' needed but pretty cheap) and new solenoid contacts in the starter.

    Despite what Ferrari charge for replacements these things are full of standard Bosch components. My starter/alt guy said that as long as the casings were OK he could replace pretty much anything inside them.
     
  13. viper_driver

    viper_driver Formula Junior

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    #13 viper_driver, Apr 3, 2011
    +1. I did it the other way and totally agree after suffering through it. This is what I'd do next time.
     
  14. drunkenmaster16x1

    drunkenmaster16x1 Formula Junior

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    #14 drunkenmaster16x1, Apr 4, 2011
    Great! Thanks for the list-I will be sure and check it all out. Plan on cleaning the engine with some aircraft grade WD-40.
     
  15. drunkenmaster16x1

    drunkenmaster16x1 Formula Junior

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    #15 drunkenmaster16x1, Apr 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Will do.

    I was surprised how good the cams looked.

    Some pictures from today's work-just removed a valve cover to see how things are looking-lots of milky build-up and gaskets on the valve cover were bad as well; from inspection of the head bolts, it looks like they had been tightened before(slight stripping around the outer edges).
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  16. drunkenmaster16x1

    drunkenmaster16x1 Formula Junior

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    #16 drunkenmaster16x1, Apr 28, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    After being advised by Norwood's to try to torque the heads before pulling the engine and replacing the gaskets(tightening the heads can seal the leak from the head gaskets), I purchased the tool to torque the heads(heads are under the camshafts). It is a neat little tool that allows you to snake under the cams and slip the tool over the bolts(rounded heads). I torqued one bank to 72 psi; will remove the second valve covers today and torque those as well.

    Here is the tool(purchased from Ricambi America) and the service manual specifying the proper torque sequence for the heads.

    Cheers!
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  17. Iain

    Iain F1 Rookie

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    #17 Iain, Apr 28, 2011
    How did you do this? Did you back the nuts off and re-torque them? or did you just go from where they were (and if so did you get much morvement)?
     
  18. drunkenmaster16x1

    drunkenmaster16x1 Formula Junior

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    #18 drunkenmaster16x1, Apr 28, 2011
    Hi Iain,

    I torqued them from where they were; fortunately I was able to obtain the service manual that specified the correct sequence to torque them in; four or five on each cylinder bank got either a quarter to three quarters of a turn on them-quite loose. Hopefully this will seal up the blown head gaskets enough to keep the coolant out of the oil for now. I just drained out all the oil; I will post a picture later-the coolant mixed in with the oil per the bad head gaskets. Looks like chocolate milk!
     
  19. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #19 smg2, Apr 28, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2011
    they should be backed off to relax them then re-torque to proper specs, otherwise there is significant risk of over torque and uneven torque resulting in possible leaks and failures. over torque a stud and it'll snap, then it's a major PITA to remove.

    adding...
    metal gaskets this is OK with, composite gaskets tend to be set and don't re-set well and risk leaking however since you may have a leak already from loose studs it may fix that. the thing that concerns me is that it may not be that at all and could be from a crack in the head.
     
  20. eric340r

    eric340r Rookie

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    #20 eric340r, Apr 28, 2011
    interesting topic
     
  21. drunkenmaster16x1

    drunkenmaster16x1 Formula Junior

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    #21 drunkenmaster16x1, Apr 28, 2011
    Great point. I hope it's not a crack in the head; I had originally planned to pull the engine out but was advised to try this fix first as it may not only remedy the head gasket leak, but help isolate the problem of the coolant getting into the oil. I eventually plan to pull the engine but in the mean time hopefully this will work. Also good info on the gaskets-the gaskets on the valve/camshaft covers looked pretty bad. I will have to get some new ones before putting the valve covers back on. Additionally some of the bolts under the valve covers were slightly stripped...leading me to believe the engine had been worked on before.
     
  22. Iain

    Iain F1 Rookie

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    #22 Iain, Apr 28, 2011
    Sit down before you look up the price of those cam cover gaskets (!). You should probably also replace the distributor and end plate gaskets. To replace the distributor gaskets you will have to take the plate off the end of the cam & so you might want to think about renewing the oil seal that's in the plate while you are at it.

    If you want a less expensive option on the gaskets then Superformance in the UK have one.

    Spend time cleaning the mating surfaces on the head and the cover really well and do some research about putting the RTV sealant in the corners by the cam seal o rings & at the points where the cam cover gaskets meet the dizzy and end plate gaskets.

    Given what's been said I would also be tempted to retorque the head again to make sure its right. But back each nut off half a turn before you tighten them down this time.
     
  23. carl888

    carl888 F1 Veteran
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    #23 carl888, Aug 27, 2011
    Curious if there is an update to your head gasket issue? I am going through the same thing myself and am curious as to why your gaskets failed in the first place.

    Heads were torqued correctly in my case, but the fact the previous owner ran straight water in the cooling system may have had something to do with it!!

    Regards,

    Carl.
     
  24. MNExotics

    MNExotics F1 Rookie
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    #24 MNExotics, Aug 28, 2011
    I just did the heads in my 82 last summer. It is a tough job but if you do pull the engine you may want to look at doing the lower drive cam bearings. They will fail you at some point and it is easier with the engine out. For head gaskets I went with a set from Comtic. They are embossed multi layered steal and coated with viton rubber.
     
  25. drunkenmaster16x1

    drunkenmaster16x1 Formula Junior

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    #25 drunkenmaster16x1, May 5, 2013
    Hi all,

    Well, after being MIA on F-chat and in the garage for the past two years(work/life/travel/women), things have finally settled to where I can get back to work. I pulled the motor out last night and will post pictures next. I understand the cooling system from the factory was just enough to get the job done. When issues with it arose(a tear in the radiator reservoir, cooling fans up front failing, etc) the temperatures got so hot it burned the gaskets out.

    Carl-I always used a mix of 50/50 Prestone and water. I can't imagine straight water in this system! No wonder it went awry!
     
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