308 QV US Electrical Anomaly of this season | FerrariChat

308 QV US Electrical Anomaly of this season

Discussion in '308/328' started by olehholy, Jul 4, 2019.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. olehholy

    olehholy Karting

    Nov 12, 2003
    122
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Oleh Holynskyj
    Hello All:

    Wondering if anyone has experienced this. After getting my '84 US 308 QV out of mothballs for the season, I noticed a loud buzzing when I reconnected the battery. After some sniffing around I realized that it was the headlamp motor relay. It was buzzing quite loudly like a seatbelt warning buzzer of days gone by. I also noticed that the fuse for the headlamp motors was blown. I replaced the fuse and the relay went silent. However, in a matter of hours, the fuse blew again and the headlamp relay began to buzz loudly again. I also replaced the relay hoping it was a flaky relay but even the brand new relay buzzed like crazy when the fuse is blown, Has anyone experienced this or have any insights as to where to start.

    Happy Fourth incidentally.

    Oleh
     
  2. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2012
    3,324
    Tallahassee, FL
    I'd be interested in knowing about the power situation for the headlight motor. Sounds as if it's demanding more current than it should.
     
  3. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2006
    15,812
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Motor could be going bad, it has too much resistance that will cause the fuse to get hot and blow.
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,835
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    By "headlamp motor relay" do you mean the "relay for headlamps lifting motor" as it's called in the '84-'85 US 308QV OM?

    If so, does the "relay for external lights" (that's the oddball ...006 relay) also buzz when the "relay for headlamps lifting motor" buzzes?

    If you remove the "relay for external lights" when the "relay for headlamps lifting motor" is buzzing, is there any change?
     
  5. olehholy

    olehholy Karting

    Nov 12, 2003
    122
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Oleh Holynskyj
    will do on sunday and report back

    Hi Steve:

    Thx for responding. On Sunday I will tackle this again and try the things you asked and post answers.

    Some further info: The buzzing goes away when with:

    1. I place a good fuse and while it stays good (for a bit)

    OR

    2. I twist the light switch on to turn on the headlights. SO even with the fuse blown and the motors down, turning on the headlight switch silences the buzzing. I guess to summarize, it buzzes when the fuse is blown and the headlights OFF

    I will post on Sunday
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,835
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #6 Steve Magnusson, Jul 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
    Your thread title doesn't go far enough -- it should be "the Electrical Gremlin of the Century"! ;)

    Please also confirm that the fuse in question is the seventh from the left of the LH fuseblock. What's weird is that this fuse has nothing to do operation of the relay for headlamps lifting motor (this fuse supplies +12V power to the RH headlight motor relay and LH headlight motor relay). Wouldn't hurt to also remove the RH headlight motor relay and LH headlight motor relay and see if that changes things with regard to the buzzing and the fuse blowing -- also will give you a chance to give them a light shake and see if anything is broken inside and rattling around (also wouldn't hurt to check for any loose bits inside the relay for external lights and the relay for headlamps lifting motor).

    Will await your report.
     
  7. olehholy

    olehholy Karting

    Nov 12, 2003
    122
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Oleh Holynskyj
    Ok. So here are some more detail

    Yes, the fuse that is blowing is marked as “Headlight Motors” and is 7th as marked by the cover

    Removing the 2 individual relays for the left and right headlamp motors did NOT stop the buzzing

    However, removing the “oddball” “external lights” relay DID stop the buzzing !! I shook it and it seems intact. I will see if I have one

    Thx

    Oleh
     
  8. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,835
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #8 Steve Magnusson, Jul 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
    Yes, for diagnostic purposes, it's unfortunate to have only one of the ...006 relays; however, for a test, you can replace the ...006 relay with a ...113 relay (like the horn relay), reinstall the ...101 LH & RH headlamp motor relays, and see if the headlights then work OK or if you have the same trouble.

    (I think the only downside of using the ...113 relay in the ...006 relay position might be something like the exterior running lights also flashing when using the stalk to flash the headlights, but, for just the normal headlight operation either should work the same.)

    Also, did you ever just try using a different ...101 relay for the "relay for headlamps lifting motor"?
     
  9. olehholy

    olehholy Karting

    Nov 12, 2003
    122
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Oleh Holynskyj
    I think I found the culprit !! Upon closer examination of the fuse box. I noted a "foreign" connection doubled up on the Headlamp Motor fuse that was blowing. It was a cheesy looking speaker wire with a poorly crimped connector. I believe it to be an older, abandoned
    stereo installation from a previous owner. Once I removed the wire, things have calmed down. Hopefully that was it.
    I appreciate all those who chimed in to help.

    Now if I can only figure out why my gauges move up 20% when I move the panel dimmer rheostat, I will be finally free of electrical anomalies :)

    Oleh
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,835
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Didn't I mention that Step 0 in chasing electrical gremlins is: "check for dodgy modifications"? ;)

    It's not uncommon for the gauge needles to move maybe 1/2~1 needle width when the dash lights are turned "on" and the dimmer is set to maximum brightness, but your "20%" sounds a lot more than that -- is it? If so, it indicates that the ground connection for the gauges and dash lights (which is shared) is not so good. On your rear defroster warning light, there are two terminals: one has a single L (blue) wire and the other has two N (black) wires (swagged into a single female terminal). One of those black wires is the ground, and runs to a common grounding point with many connections. As a test, if you add a jumper connecting those two black wires to a known good ground and the gauge needle movement is greatly reduced = a strong sign that the connection at the common grounding point is not good. Alternatively, you could permanently install that jumper in the central tunnel if it helps things, and I wouldn't call that 'dodgy" ;)
     
  11. olehholy

    olehholy Karting

    Nov 12, 2003
    122
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Oleh Holynskyj
    Steve:

    Yes, the gauges do indeed move pretty dramatically. I can fill my fuel tank and increase my oil pressure with a flick of the thumb !! :)
    I appreciate the input on the ground. That will be this weekend's chase !

    Thx

    Oleh
     
  12. olehholy

    olehholy Karting

    Nov 12, 2003
    122
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Oleh Holynskyj
    Steve:

    Is the "common ground" fairly accessible somewhere ?

    Thx
     
  13. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,835
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    I don't know. On the OM schematic, it's shown as a single point where about 8 different wires are connected. My guess would be that it would either be sort of behind the relay panel or maybe in the passenger footwell area, but could be anywhere on the front firewall or even maybe in the forward part of the central tunnel. Hopefully, another '84-'85 US 308QV Owner can chime in on its location.

    However, this ground network for the gauges is a "daisy chain" affair so if you've got some gauges that have the problem and some that don't = that would more signify the trouble is in one of the swages of the daisy chain. If all the gauges show the same problem = more likely it's at the common ground point connection. But adding that jumper should improve things for the gauges (i.e., reduce the needle movement with the dash lights "on") even if all is OK as stock.
     
  14. olehholy

    olehholy Karting

    Nov 12, 2003
    122
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Oleh Holynskyj
    Well, unfortunately, after a few weeks of peace, the headlamp motor fuse blew and the buzzing relay has returned .... sigh... I will look at the relays again
    :-(
     

Share This Page