308 rear spoiler (wing)

Do not forget that the smooth ones were also intended for, and used on, cars (either GTBs or GTSs) in the markets where the "roof spoiler painted in body color" was an option, and this accounts for quite a number or cars, and therefore, spoilers. Not here in France, but many cars in Germany, Italy, the U.K...have body-color roof spoiler, so the smooth one. Smooth roof spoilers were also intended for GTSs originally.
Rgds

 

Then the fastest 3x8 of the family, the 288 GTO, would have had a roof spoiler also. It has an enlarged decklid spoiler, but no roof spoiler...
Rgds

 

Hmmm...

Neo, I have to admit that I was mentally disagreeing with you re the 3x8 rear wing. I was confident that it was there to serve some useful aero function at high speed. But your observation re the 288 GTO makes a good argument that the 3x8 wing was, indeed, a marketing/style option.

 

It doesn't cool anything.

the QV's unique tendency to run hot is ONLY at low speeds/stop and go. Never at highway speeds.

In other words, for this thing to aid with that, you have to be flying down the highway - the only time it doesn't need it.

It's an american cosmetic gimmick

 

The 85' USA QV has a texture spoiler.

 

I believe the texture is a B or S thing.

 

Texture is for The S

 

"It's an american cosmetic gimmick"
It's more likely a "Fiat cosmetic gimmick."

"Texture is for The S"
Makes sense that textured wing was for GTS cars since it matches the roof. Less expensive to produce as well and since there were way more GTSs than GTBs, made good cost/benefit sense!


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Mike,

Remember, as written above, that in Europe, many GTSs had the "body color" roof spoiler (= painted, option at no extra cost...) which means the "Smooth" one.

Rgds

 

Already posted this but my 85 GTB came with a textured. Perhaps it's a unicorn?

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My 81 GTSi has a smooth wing, may not have been delivered with it, not sure, but I like it


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I'm certain it wasn't.

Doesn't matter, though. Your car, your taste. Enjoy!

 

I am jumping into this thread without reading much of it. One of the topics seems to be speculation regarding the purpose and effectiveness of the roof spoiler (basket handle).

I am jumping in just to note that a similar roof spoiler was added to the Lancia Stratos to channel air for the engine. It also acted as a roll bar. Lancia and Ferrari were both in the Fiat group at the time.

 

"
I am jumping in just to note that a similar roof spoiler was added to the Lancia Stratos to channel air for the engine"

Can't think what the 3x8 engine need for air would be since the radiator is up front and the engine air intake is on the side of the body. The vents in the hood would allow for general engine heat to dissipate.

Roll bar seems possible though since it was optional, that doesn't seem likely to me.

 

There might be a good reason for that. A roof aileron may divert the airflow over the rear spoiler on the 288 rendering it less effective. This is speculation with my observation working in wind tunnels


The last thing you want in a car with elevated speeds like these is higher rear axle lift imbalance. Yaw characteristics plays a large role as well with the location of the center of pressure. This not speculation.


Low drag or top speed are nearly always compromised for aero stability. It is paramount for a circuit racer since top trap speed is inconsequential to the lowest consistent lap times not to mention for the drivers to safety exploit the chassis at the limit. The later is import for road cars


Interestingly, Giugaro updated the design on the s3 turbo esprit with a larger rear spoiler and front airdam. According to chief engineer Roger Becker, The rear spoiler was too effective so they added a “trip spoiler” on the leading edge of roof reducing its effect for the proper axel balance.


The evolution of 288 filled in the flying buttresses with lexan backlight to improve the aero aspects and added a wing in place of the spoiler. This layout was utilized also on the succeeding F40


An US gimmick? I’m not an x08 expert, if I’m not mistake, I recall roof aileron was standard on all 208 turbo from 82 on. It’s wasn’t marketed as an USA legalized car.


Nearly every aspect of a road car is a comprise and yes marketing gimmicks play a role too. But we don’t know this for certain here so let’s use our temperature gauge instead for validation of the aileron…

 

Whatever the function of the roof spoiler, it would be totally defeated on a GTS with the roof panel removed.

 

Have you had a car in a wind tunnel to prove that? - I suspect not

Until someone goes to the trouble (and expense) of putting a 3*8 GTB and/or GTS with roof spoilers fitted, in a wind tunnel, and carries out a proper test (roof on and off with a GTS), to see what effect if any, the roof spoiler has on the airflow, everybody's answer is simply going to be a guess/speculation.

It could be just for show, and does nothing whatsoever - Just a simple way to add a money making option on a car that has very few options available.

It could be that it helps direct air onto the lip at the trailing edge of the engine cover, to help cut drag off the back of the car - The angle of the underside of the spoiler seems to be about right for that (there's no way it has anything to do with creating down-force - The trailing lip is far too small to generate any real down-force)

It could be that there is a lack of air pressure in the area around the rear screen and buttresses when the car is being driven fast, and the roof spoiler helps pull the air away by directing some moving air over the area, dragging heat away from the engine.

It's all be speculated before, over many, many years on here, and the fact is, nobody knows for sure what the roof spoiler does (if anything at all), and nobody ever will until cars are put into wind tunnels, and proper testing is carried out.

The only consensus that has ever really come out of these discussions is, it's not a "must have at any cost!" item, that dramatically transforms the car.

 

I had a career in fluid dynamics that tells me removing the roof panel will disrupt the flow over the car. Don't need a wind tunnel to tell you the obvious. Sorry if you feel that is isufficient to make such a judgement.

 

My take is that it was not a styling gimmick, it was put on there for an aerodynamic purpose. Ferrari just were never known for tacking on fake scoops and bling, everything had an intended function. Whether it actually worked or not is beside the point

 

I'd like to agree with what you are saying - that the wing SURELY must have some intended aero function but Neo's observation re the 288 GTO AND the fact that the wing was optional on the 3x8 has convinced me to the opposite view. But I'd sure like to have some genuine evidence that the wing was scientifically designed to DO something.

OTOH, if it did, I would have expected Ferrari to say something about that in the option description - something like, "If the car is to be operated at speeds above [whatever], the optional roof wing should be selected for improved [whatever]"

 

Buy a ball of wool yarn and some masking tape. Tape 2" or 3" pieces of yarn all over the rear deck. Dive the car at a constant speed and have a friend in the passenger's seat video the behavior of the tufts of yarn. Do it with the wing on and off, on a GTS also with the roof on and off. 4 total drives. No need for a wind tunnel. Also do it at different speeds if you like.


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Or...buy a model 3x8 and use whatever electric fan you have laying around!

Heck, that's exactly what they did years ago - sort it out on a model before building the real thing.

 

I have a 200 mph leafs blower, wonder if that will work.

 

From my understanding of aerodynamics, it was to remove engine heat. In a situation of cut off body panel (Think Prius or Citroen XM, DS) on the rear of a car, the air flows as if there was a pointed end on the car. All the air behind the "tailgate" stays there and moves with the car while airflow travels where the body panels would be if the butt was pointed like the front. If you look at the engine compartment of a 308, it's very similar and would suggest that the air stays above the engine and doesn't help to remove hot air. The spoiler is most likely designed to remove this effect and help remove hot air.

 

These cars have never had an engine heat problem at speed.