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308 shock rebuilding?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by corse driver, Aug 21, 2004.

  1. corse driver

    corse driver Rookie

    Aug 19, 2004
    15
    Have any of your rebuilt your shocks on a 308? Where can you get a kit or peices? Do you need many or any special tools and where can you get dampning fluid?

    I am a good enough mechanic, but is it worth it to simply buy new ones?
     
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  3. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
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    Hugh G. Rection
    Rebuilding is certainly possible, and someone here did it recently. It was impressive to see someone could do it....but without a machine to calibrate them, and having to "guesstimate" on what to use for some of the seals....I would be inclined to just buy new. I don't know what year your 308 is, but I entered a 1980 308 at Tire Rack and came up with these prices:
    http://snipurl.com/8kj0 $119 for front, $150 for rear, and these have a lifetime warranty. You would still need two new bushings for each shock...they run around $20 each from the usual Ferrari parts houses.

    But if you have the skills and inclination, then by all means:
    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19907&highlight=shock+rebuilding

    Surprisingly, commercial rebuilding seems to run around $150 to $175, so most just get new....but if your only source for replacements is the Ferrari dealer, then rebuilding can make sense. ;)
     
  4. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2002
    1,953
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    Lawrence A. Coppari
    If they are Koni shocks, you can send them back. They rebuild their shocks. I had some worn out shocks of theirs rebuilt and made adjustable.
     
  5. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 3, 2002
    6,075
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    Mike Charness
    Yes, but the rebuild cost is usually as much or more than buying new ones. You only get them rebuilt (lifetime warrantee) if you're the original purchaser.
     
  6. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    THE Birdman
    Buy new ones! Trust me on this one! I had mine rebuilt and it cost much more than simply replacing. If you can rebuild them yourself, the parts alone will still cost nearly as much as replacement. Tire rack has them.
     
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  8. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
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    Advantage of rebuild is you can change specs.
    TrueChoice or QV London (UK) can arrange for you.
     
  9. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
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    Then you might as well buy different/adjustable shocks...
     
  10. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    Having had my shocks rebuilt by TrueChoice, I can say very accurately that having them rebuilt will cost about DOUBLE the cost of new ones. Rebuilding is the route for someone that insists on keeping the original shocks that came with the car for 100% faithful restoration purposes. It is not the way to go if you just want your shocks to work.

    Incidentally, the clunking sound you are hearing is not likely related to the shocks and rebuilding/replacing will not fix it. Ask me how I know.

    Birdman
     
  11. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2002
    1,953
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    Lawrence A. Coppari
    Mine were less than the original cost. And I got the LW without being the original purchaser.

    And it sounds like Truechoice was a truly bad choice.
     
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  13. corse driver

    corse driver Rookie

    Aug 19, 2004
    15
    I'll check out the tire rack, those seem to be great prices.

    Also, I feel dumb, I forgot about Truechoice, I know the guys there and forgot they rebuild.

    But you all are right, I may as well get new.

    My sincere thanks
     
  14. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
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    Aug 3, 2002
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    Where did you have it done?
     
  15. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    THE Birdman
    I'll bet it wasn't Truechoice!!

    I can say that for me, Truechoice was a bad choice. Search the archives and you can read the whole story.
     
  16. chrismorse

    chrismorse Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2004
    2,149
    way north california
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    chris morse
    My 77 GTB had noises. I started with the shock bushings. These were physically quite tough to replace without a press. $80 later, i not only had the 4 front bushings replaced but still had the noise. as an added bonus, both shocks were now leaking fron the top.

    Persuing many shock threads, i decided to go with the QA-1 replacement units from summitt as well as stiffer springs F/R. There were many choices, Ohlins, Bilsteins, Konis and unknown shocks, double ext adj from Norwoods at $1500 with springs, (set of 4). See Steve Rochlins posts. Konis are adjustable, if youi remove them from the car and get a spring compressor and remove the spring. That's a lot of work and there are few choices of spring rate and "0" Height adjustabliity.

    My priorities were externally adjustablility, light weight, ability to adjust height, low cost and the ability to choose spring rates. Given the number of things i wish to update on the GTB, I opted for the low cost QA-1

    The QA-1 shock requires adaptors to mount properly. The sleeves or bushings shipped with the shocks are too big for the stock bolt and the provided shock bushings are too narrow. If you install the shocks with these large bushings, it is likely that the shock will break the bolt. At the rear, we have the same problem compounded by the fact that you cannot tighten the lower bolt on the loose bushing without possibly snapping off the cast aluminum ears on the upright - a very bad situation. MR. Verell Boaen, of Unobtanium Supply fame, is making some bushings to remedy this situation. Aditionally, the QA-1 front shocks require a spring compressor to mount the spring. Rears can be hand assembled.

    As a side note, Summitt also offers flat, thin "Torrington" bearings to install under the bottom of the spring washer. These greatly ease the necessary ride height adjustment.

    HTH,
    chris
     
  17. TommyA

    TommyA Formula Junior
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    Oct 7, 2002
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    Sharpsburg, GA.
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    Tommy A
    Has anyone tried the shocks that Nick from Forza sells?
    If so what kind of problems encountered with the installation?
     
  18. corse driver

    corse driver Rookie

    Aug 19, 2004
    15
    Bottom Line is that my left rear schock is not dampning much at all now and I am going to replace it.

    I think birdman said that I should ask him what he thinks it is. Well what do you think it is?
     
  19. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,687
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    I didn't say that I knew what it is...just that I knew what it wasn't!
     
  20. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
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    Search the archives as i have some info previously posted. Easy to install per se with only a slight cut/mod made to the upper front A arm. Basically, have his shocks with 300 lbs front and 250 lbs rear springs. WELL worth it but ALSO i suggest doing ALL bushing (if yours are old, and they probably are) to Energy Suspension graphites for about $18 each and you need 16 or so as i recall.

    Result, transformed the car ONCE I TUNED THE SUSPENSION and it handles much better than stock PLUS i lowered the car about 1.5-inches.

    Suggested settings for 16-inch tires for good normal road driving:

    Front: 9 top adjuster and 5 below adjuster
    Bottom: 8 top adjuster and 5 below adjuster
     
  21. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 21, 2000
    6,403
    B.C., Canada
    While I was at CI, I purchased a set of "Koni" classic wing decals for the set of shocks I'll rebuild for my car. I bought them from Kilimanjaro (sp?) Designs, but because I paid cash, I didn't get a receipt and I'd like to know what their contact info is, for future purchases... Any body out there have this info?
     
  22. chrismorse

    chrismorse Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2004
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    chris morse
    So, Steve,

    If I may hyjack this thread a bit more, what are your current suspension settings, esp camber, F & R???

    Have you got your new wheels and tires yet??

    best,
    chris
     
  23. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 28, 2003
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    Chris,
    I'm in the middle of doing the QA-1's. Still waiting on the machine shop to make the sleeves for the bushings. What caught my eye was the statement above. Why would you need a spring compressor to mount the front spring?

    I don't have them in yet but I have already assembled the springs to the shocks. Maybe I'm missing something?? Any help would be great!!

    Thanks,
    John
     
  24. chrismorse

    chrismorse Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2004
    2,149
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    chris morse
    John,

    Which springs did you get for the front? What length and spring rate?
    I used the 350 lb spring and had to use a spring compressor to get it on the shock. If memory serves, the length was 14 inch. I will have to check the part number and lenght that i installed. Will let you know if it is different.

    You mentioned that you were geting a bushings made for the shocks. I think it is very important to get a FLANGED bushing not just a straight bushing so that the shock can be properly tightened. Pardon me if i am stating the obvious or your have already found this out; but the Qa-1s are about 1/2 inch narrower than the mounting ears. you can shim out the new bushing with washers, but this is a pain in the a**. I tried it and it is tough to get the shock, several washers and the bolt to all fit tightly. In the back of the car, the shock mounts between two cast ears on the upright. if the shock "bushing" is not a good tight fit, it might be possible to bend or more likely break one or more of the cast ears on the upright, while tightening the shock mounting bolt. My guess is that this casting is quite priceyto replace.
    Verell is making two flanged bushings per shock attachment to make these shocks work.

    Have you figured out how you are going to get the corner weights close to right?? I haven't really tried to find a real racer to loan/rent me the scales.
    I find that it is somewhat taxing to rotate the adjustment nuts on the threaded barrels even with the optional Torrington bearings. When I install the Unobtanium shock bushings, I will try a "waterproof" synthetic grease on the bearings to ease the height adjustment.

    How do you use the car? What % track/ hot street driving/ "normal use"? what size wheels and tires and finally, how are you going to set the camber F/R.

    With keen interest,
    chris
     
  25. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 28, 2003
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    Chris,

    I have all the info at home and I'm at work. IIRC I went with 300 front and 250 rear. I wanted to get 325 and 275 but Summitt didn't have the 325's. Not sure about the length either but the fronts are assembled and seem to fit just fine so far.

    I'm getting straight bushings made but am also getting washers made to fill the gaps. Should work just fine and will be quicker for the machinist to make.

    Did you put anti-seize on the shock as suggested in the instructions? Might not make it much easier to turn though. I was kind of wondering about that too!!

    I plan on getting a four wheel alignment done when they're all installed and will try to find a shop that can do the corner weights at the same time. I'm not sure about the camber, I'm still doing research on that. I've seen some info in a couple threads.

    I use the car mainly as a driver, but would like to be able to get it out on the track once or maybe twice a year. I just put the 16" QV Repro's on.

    I'm also doing the sway bar bushings and might do the A arm bushings too. I'm going to try the shocks/springs/sway bar bushings first and see how it goes. I'll probably wind up doing the A arms this winter as I have some other projects planned for then!

    I'll get more accurate info and put it up when I get home.

    Thanks,
    John
     
  26. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 28, 2003
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    Chris,

    This is the thread where I got most of my information. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11974
    I think the front springs are 10" and the rears are 12". The part numbers were

    Front: 10002500300
    Rear: 12003250025

    The shocks were:

    Front: HAL-ALN4855P
    Rear: HAL-ALN5855P

    I'm begining to think either you got springs that were too long or I got ones that are too short. Everything seems to work OK on yours though?

    I'll keep you posted as soon as I get all the parts. I'm hoping to at least have the fronts done by this weekend.

    Almost forgot, the wheels are 16x7 front with 225-50's and the rears are 16x8 with 245-45's

    John
     
  27. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
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    Chris, the new rims/tires have not arrived. Am awaiting those. The alignment is slightly more aggressive stock so when cornering it grips more BUT once the new rims/tires come i am going to have KTR add the new brakes/calipers and i want to re-corner weigh her. Been debating bringing the REAR of the car down a bit and want to double check the F/R weight ratio AFTER the new rims/brakes/tires arrive.

    Then i will drive her and laser pyro the tires and see how even the heat is across the tread and have the alignment adjusted accordingly.

    The rims/tires should be here in a week or so, then i can add the bits and know more. So tag me back around LATE September as i will be in Milan/Maranello/Venice for a few weeks in September.
     
  28. Ted

    Ted Rookie

    Nov 3, 2003
    17
    Garland, Texas
    Full Name:
    Ted Gage
    The following communication with SummitRacing.com

    Question:
    I'm looking at your QA1 Motorsport rear shocks: HAL-5855P for replacement on a 308 GTB Ferrari. However, because the spring rides all the way to the top, it inteferes with the a-frame. However, if the top mounting bracket of the shock is removable, one could use a sleeve to lower the upper spring carrier and everything would work perfectly with no modifications to the car.
    So the question is: Can the top mounting bracket (where the shock attaches to the car) be removed on these shocks?

    Response:
    From what we show, that bracket cannot be moved. One thing that you would be able to try it to run the shocks upside down. The QA1 shocks are able to be used in either direction. You just have to change the valving.
     

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