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308 sitting 6 mo. not starting

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Dollartaker, Mar 8, 2004.

  1. Dollartaker

    Dollartaker Rookie

    Mar 8, 2004
    2
    My 85 308 was sitting for 6 mos. ran fine when put up. Two weeks ago I charged my optima battery and drove the car for an hour with no problems. This weekend, the battery was dead again. Even with the charger, it still was low on juice. I put jumper cables on and the car cranked and cranked, but would not start. When I took the cables off, the battery did not hold any charge. My question is this, is it possible by jumping, to crank the car, but not have enough amps to run the fuel pump? The signs are odd. It would be simple to just change the battery, but ran out of time this weekend.
    Thanks for your help.
    Mike
     
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  3. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
    17,388
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    It is possible if the battery has a internal short, that jumping will not start the car. If the battery is not holding a charge, then you need to replace it anyway, so why not start there? The Optima has a pretty good warranty, maybe you get a "free" one? :)
     
  4. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
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    Agree with cool dude Dave, sounds like dead cell/battery.

    Enjoy the Drive,

    Steven R. Rochlin

    PS: ALWAYS maintain the battery if she is going to sit for month+, letting it run low is not a good thing.
     
  5. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
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    Franklin E. Parker
    Why would the car sit for six months in the first place ?
     
  6. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,006
    Groton, MA
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    Verell Boaen
    I suspect it's more likely that the battery voltage was too low for the ecus to make a spark. They're fairly finicky. If you're getting no terminal voltage after charging for a while, then the battery has opened up internally.

    You may also discover that you've managed to pretty well flood the engine with all that cranking. If it doesn't start w/a fresh battery, try pulling all the plugs out & removing the fuse for the ignition, then cranking for 5-10 sec. to blow any accumulated gas out of the cylinders. Also blow the plugs off w/compressed air, make sure they aren't fouled. Most likely it'll start right up.

    Second the recommendation for a battery tender. I like the 1.5A solar chargers that Harbor Freight sells, and the Schumaker 1.5A ones with the diagonal corners that WalMart & others sell.

    Also, I always pull the battery disconnect plug when my car is going to sit up for a while. That keeps little things like the clock & stereo from discharging the battery.

    Makes a big difference:
    W/the disconnect plug pulled, my '82 308 QV has started right-up in mid-March after sitting since mid-october w/o even a maintainer! W/o it disconnected, the battery will be flat in 6 weeks or so.

    Only problem with pulling the disconnect plug is that you can't plug a trickle charger into the cigarette lighter as it's no longer connected to the battery.
    Several list members put a marine cig. lighter connecter down under the spoiler & directly connect it to the battery.
     
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  8. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
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    Maybe it gets cold where he lives.
     
  9. vincent355

    vincent355 F1 Veteran
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    Apr 8, 2003
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    Mike,

    Do you live in Montana?

    Vincent.

    I think a new battery is probably the first thing to try.
     
  10. joeyy

    joeyy Karting

    Nov 11, 2003
    190
    long island
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    joe
    Verell has it nailed. the battery was probably in need of replacement for some time now but now it is confirmed. bet you can't wait for some warm weather?i am in NY and the weather here has been spotty at best for quality driving.
     
  11. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 27, 2003
    448
    Hmm, this makes no sense - if the car can crank and turn over with the charger on it, then it shouldn't need the battery as as power source - it's clearly running off of the charger. That is, unless I misread the post.

    In general, starting or jump starting a car with a charger and/or jumper cables is a bad idea. I think that Porsche voids all kinds of warranties, etc. if you do this. As for me, I do it all the time, although if you don't do it "right", you can introduce latent damage into your alternator diodes. No proof of that, but that is what I've gathered from many sources...

    If there is some type of short (in the battery), I would check the fuses - they may have been tipped accidentally by a screwy battery.

    First I would swap out the battery though...

    -Wayne
     
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  13. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    May 5, 2001
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    Wayne,
    As I read the orig. post, the starter will turn the engine over, but it won't start & the battery acts dead. I"ve seen cars where a charger is enough to spin the motor, but can't produce enough voltage for the electronics to work. I'm speculating that this is the case here.
     
  14. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior
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    Nov 27, 2003
    448
    Hmm, an interesting thought. However, whenever I've tried to restart a car with a dead battery, it's always been that if you can spin the motor - there's enough juice for the ignition system. Never been the other way around as far as I can remember.

    Keeping the thought then, you wouldn't be able to push start a car in this situation. If the engine is turning over, the alternator should be creating enough juice to start the car, unless the electrical system is very poorly designed or damaged?

    This was my thinking that led me to believe there is an additional problem, other than an apparent dead battery.

    I have seen some unexplainable things when it comes to batteries and electrical systems though, so I've learned to keep an open mind.

    -Wayne
     
  15. Dollartaker

    Dollartaker Rookie

    Mar 8, 2004
    2
    To clarify, The battery was dead. I charged it and it ran. After one week, battery was dead again. Battery charger was not charging battery. With charger off and battery dead, put on jumpers cranked engine over, but would not start. Took jumpers off and there was no juice in battery. Now I will change the battery, but was just curious about the dynamics of this little problem. I am elecrically inept.
    Thanks
    Mike
     
  16. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Put a fresh one in and try again.

    My 308GTB will crank without a strong enough spark to fire. DO NOT try to jump one of these and then run it to recharge the battery! You'll be sorry.

    Step 1 Charge battery or replace fresh

    Step 2 Go Drive!
     
  17. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
    17,388
    USA
    If the battery is dead after one week, you have one of three things:

    1) Bad battery, either with internal short or dead cells.

    2) Bad charging system (unlikely, since the car is running fine otherwise)

    3) Something is draining the battery when it is sitting (alarm, short, etc.)

    I'm going with #1. Try charging the battery, THEN, put it on a load tester, to see if it is actually holding a charge. If it isn't, ditch it, and get a new one. Hell, if the battery is more than two years old, ditch it anyway. Just eliminates one future problem.
     
  18. abarthracer

    abarthracer Formula Junior

    Dec 6, 2003
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    Falmouth, Cape Cod
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    david S.
     
  19. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior
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    Nov 27, 2003
    448
    How very odd. Anyone want to elaborate on why this might be? Are the ignition systems so temperamental that they need a voltage supply in a very narrow range?

    A starter draws up to 250 amps sometimes - I would think that if the battery has enough juice to turn the engine over, it also has enough energy to power the ignition system.

    Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think that there are other factors involved. I can't imagine a scenario where the battery has enough juice to turn over the car, but doesn't have enough energy to fire the ignition. My '79 308 takes about 30 seconds of turning over to start (for the fuel to fill up into the system) - it's definitely not an ignition system problem there.

    -Wayne
     
  20. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,687
    North shore, MA
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    THE Birdman
    Wayne,
    You CRANK your car for 30 seconds? I hope you have a good supply of starter motors! Let the fuel pump run for 20 seconds to fill the carbs before you crank it! Works wonders.

    Birdman
     
  21. 4re308

    4re308 F1 Rookie

    Jun 13, 2001
    4,729
    Woodstock, GA
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    Mitch D
    Mike, my 84 did the same thing. I thought and worried it was a fuel pump or the ECU...but it was just a crappy battery. The very first thing to stop working is the fuel pump, when the battery is needing replacement. With a new fresh Diehard, it starts and runs everytime in all temps.
     
  22. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior
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    Nov 27, 2003
    448
    Not continuously, but in small spurts. Letting the fuel pump run for several minutes prior to starting does nothing to help the situation...

    -Wayne
     
  23. GearHead

    GearHead Karting

    Jan 3, 2004
    76
    30 seconds to start the car?

    Any idea what's wrong with it?
     
  24. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 27, 2003
    448
    I didn't think anything - all the Porsches with Weber carbs take a while to start when they're cold and have been sitting for a week or so.

    Everyone else's carb'ed 308 starts up right away?

    -Wayne
     

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