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308 Stainless steel brake lines frustration!

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Birdman, Nov 7, 2006.

  1. Martin Meade

    Martin Meade Karting
    Sponsor

    Oct 25, 2004
    229
    B'ham, WA
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    Martin Meade
    AHHH lines... Nobody probably noticed, but we pulled all lines from our store and I refuse to deal with them any more. I have had so many sets of lines made by Goodridge and others including Orme Bros. Half the time the don't fit or fail or some other drama. There are at least three different line lengths I have personally seen on 308's. Do NOT take someone elses measurements and assume they will work on your car. They are inches different. I can't explain it nor do I care to waste another moment on them. Also, the S bend pipes that the hoses connect to will leak most likely because they are of crap quality. Your best bet is to get the ones from Orme bros, and ask for the copper washers to keep the flares from leaking at the s-pipe. They use a different brand of fitting if you want them DOT approved or Goodridge fittings without the plastic ends. You can alternatively make new s-pipes and this will ensure no leaks. Not too difficult if you have the right tools. Measure your own lines, photograph them,whatever it takes to get it right.

    Have fun!

    Martin
     
  2. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    72,241
    Houston, Texas
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    Bubba
    Thanks for that, Martin!

    I know waaay back when my Tech stated "if you need copper sealing washers, something isn't right"..

    I knew something was up with the swedge fitting flare angles.....

    Peter Egan wrote only last month in R&T about mistakenly throwing a Lotus brake line system away, and dumpster diving to retrieve it once realizing his mistake!
     
  3. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
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    Phil Hughes
    No, I have the lines that have the correct ends for clip mounting.. they're different.. I don't bother fitting threaded lines to anything unless concours... even then usually not... if it's hidden.

    I haven't tried copper washers.. I always re-flare or replace the steel/copper/cuniper lines (depends on market)

    Forgot to say.. the other reason for non sealing is that the pipe nut itself has been flared by overtightening.. this makes it bottom out before going tight in the new deeper taper.. in that case... same deal as crushed flare.. cut end off, replace nut, re-flare... or just replace whole hard pipe...

    Other than being time consuming... it's really no big deal...
     
  4. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
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    Paul

    We have many people here that are just like our ambulance chasing neighborhood attorney across the street, that are slowly putting a stop to all manufacturing and production in our good ole US of A. We may be a third world country sooner than anyone could imagine. China, now they are a happening place to get stuff done.
     
  5. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 28, 2003
    9,492
    Colorado
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    Bastuna
    I ordered Goodridge brake lines from Demon Tweeks and the rears were too short - by 4 inches. The issue that came up is that I waited too long (4 months) to install them so they wouldn't replace them free of charge. The lines themselves were great other than the length discrepancy.
     
  6. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
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    Paul
    Is there a model that uses 4 inch shorter lines? Maybe one of us could buy them off you if they would fit?
     
  7. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,683
    North shore, MA
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    OK gang, an update. Today I spoke with Joel at Orme Brothers and he cleared up a number of issues.

    When Goodrich originally gave the specs for the 308 brake lines to their retailers, they had the wrong lengths. As a result, the retailers sent out the wrong lengths and ended up looking bad over it when it wasn't their fault. This is why Orme, Demon Tweeks, etc. all want to confirm lengths now because nobody knows for sure what the right length is.

    I called Joel after he e-mailed me, and gave him the lengths reported here as corresponding to USA spec GTB and GTS cars. They are making them for me now and will ship tomorrow. Joel was very knowledgable and good to chat with. He was very concerned about getting it right because he doesn't want to see Orme get a raw deal on Fchat if something doesn't fit. He stressed that if anything is wrong they will make it right. These are the kinds of people I like to do business with.

    About the copper washers. Joel says that the problem is the older hard lines in the car are no longer malleable enough because they are ancient, so the new fittings sometimes don't seal. The first few sets they sold for 308s leaked as a result. People got bent out of shape, posting on the internet about it before even calling up to discuss the issue with them. Once the problem was brought to their attention, they shipped the copper washers at no charge. You may not need the copper washers, but they now include them on all SS line kits for the 308 and recommend using them.

    I am planning to have the New England "Ferrari Fix It Club" over for a day eating pizza and working on my 308 on November 26, so I'll report back on how the installation goes and post some pics.

    Birdman
     
  8. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    That was a hilarious article. He's the best thing in R&T.

    Birdman
     
  9. Martin Meade

    Martin Meade Karting
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    Oct 25, 2004
    229
    B'ham, WA
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    Martin Meade
    Good Luck, hope they work.

    Martin
     
  10. Prova85

    Prova85 Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
    1,949
    So. Shore MA.
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    Kenny K
    You sure it's not the New England "Ferrari If It Ain't Broke Fix It Anyway Club" ? :D


    C ya there B-Man
     
  11. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    You may be right about that. We seem to be doing a lot of mod work on Steven's car recently!

    Birdman
     
  12. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

    Mar 13, 2005
    3,885
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    Chris "Pizzaman"
    Ah yes, "The Ferrari Fix It Club" A day of hanging out with friends, plenty of B***S*****G, Eating, Drinking, and maybe do a little work on the 308.:)
     
  13. PenP

    PenP Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 20, 2006
    621
    Los Angeles
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    Pen Pendleton
    Here's a link to a set of pre-packaged Goodridge's for $98.00 for all 4 lines.

    Can't say whether or not this set-up solves the various issues mentioned regarding varying sizes/connectors/etc.

    They have a set for 308, 328 and Daytona (I guess they're all sold out of the P-3's!).

    http://www.racerpartswholesale.com

    (BTW: fuse box went in great- thanks)
     
  14. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Aug 3, 2002
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    Mike Charness
    That's who I bought mine from several years ago...
     
  15. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    72,241
    Houston, Texas
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    Bubba
    I told Valeria that's why our yard is full of cars....my buddies won't bring beer over and B.S. 'em back together!
     
  16. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    THE Birdman
    Well, the stainless lines from Orme Bros showed up today and they look very nice indeed. I will attempt putting them on this coming weekend during our Ferrari Fix It weekend party. Stand by for details!

    Birdman
     
  17. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

    Mar 13, 2005
    3,885
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    Hmmm....By reading your post, i don't know if your excited or not. Are they like "ALRIGHT, LOOK AT THESE MOTHERS, CAN'T WAIT TO INSTALL THEM" or is it like "oh, they look very nice i'll install these sunday" :)

    Which one is it man?? :)

    Yours truly,
    your buddy,
    Chris
     
  18. RMDC

    RMDC Formula 3

    May 15, 2005
    1,005
    Boston, North Shore
    Where's the Ferrari fix-it party?
     
  19. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    THE Birdman
    My house on Sunday. Ya want to join us? E-mail me your e-mail address and I'll send directions! (jbird AT oceanicresearch DOT org)

    Birdman
     
  20. RMDC

    RMDC Formula 3

    May 15, 2005
    1,005
    Boston, North Shore
    sent you an email
     
  21. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    You're right, that post was lame. It didn't convey my excitement fully. These are nice shiny sweet lookin' high-tech stainless brake lines man! But my enthusiasm is tempered by the knowledge that they might be a royal pain to put in, and they might not fit! So, once they are in (fingers crossed) and bled and WORK, then I will really have some exciting updates!

    Oh crap, I need to go buy another big jug of brake fluid before Sunday!

    Birdman

    P.S. Rich, I sent you directions to the party....if you can call a bunch of grown men getting covered in grease while drinking beer a party. Hope to see you here!
     
  22. chrismorse

    chrismorse Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2004
    2,149
    way north california
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    chris morse
    DUDE,

    Give me the address and i will bring the IPA keg and the MOTUL juice.

    Your verry good friend on the west coast, (thanks for the blocks).

    Come on out and see me.

    your bud,
    chris
     
  23. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,683
    North shore, MA
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    THE Birdman
    Yo Chris,
    Your presence was missed, but we drank a few in your honor!

    Today's Ferrari Fix It party was a resounding success. We had no less than 9 people here eating donuts, drinking beer and wrenching cars. The weather was unseasonably beautiful, so Kenny brought his TR, John N. brought his silver QV, Verell brought his QV, Rich brought his very original carb 308 and Wiseman brought his QV down from maine. It was like a Ferrari-o-rama here at the Birdman Estate.

    Verell and Wiseman were troubleshooting fuel pressures and testing injectors in Wiseman's 308 QV and the rest of us were dividing and conquering various tasks on my carb 308 including putting in the SS brake lines. Here'e what I can tell you about the SS brake lines:

    1. They fit great! Thanks Orme Bros!!
    2. They are a pain to put in, but not really THAT bad with a lift. The first one takes a while, but then you get the knack of it and the rest are easier.
    3. Crowfoot wrenches help.
    4. Hitting everything with PB Blaster a few hours in advance helps.

    Unfortunately, I could not bleed and test the lines today, because we decided that my rotors really need to be turned. So we pulled the calipers and rotors so I can have them turned and I have new brake pads coming. And what the hell, the calipers are off....they are gonna have to get painted red, man!! So once that's done, THEN I can put them back together and bleed. But I don't think it's going to be a problem. Stay tuned....

    Birdman
     
  24. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,683
    North shore, MA
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    THE Birdman
    #50 Birdman, Nov 27, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I just dropped my rotors off at a local machine shop to have them surfaced. The guy said they looked very good and only needed a little taken off, which is good...

    And a pic of one of the lines installed.....almost.

    I will have to admit, it's a lot easier putting these lines in with the rotors and calipers out of the way. It took a little extra time to pull off the calipers and rotors, but it probably saved at least that much time later because it was so much easier to get to everything. Add in some new brake pads, nice smooth rotors and clean brake fluid, and this thing should stop much better!

    Birdman
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