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308 Stainless steel brake lines frustration!

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Birdman, Nov 7, 2006.

  1. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
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    Steve W.
    Bird,

    Nice job on the S.S. brake line install. But man, get in there and clean that car up. It looks like you've got a ton of dirt in their. What good is having nice brakes if the suspension frames are dirty??

    <LOL Just kidding you, my friend. Seriously, the lines look good. Have to order a set of those myself.>

    Regards,
    Steve
     
  2. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    Steve, you don't know the half of it. I actually went around the car and inspected the filth in each wheel well to decide which was cleanest before I took a pic to post here! ;)

    Another note for others considering this: I was surprised that with a good lubing, the brake lines on the car came off pretty easily without anything breaking/stripping/shredding. I attribute this to:

    1. Use a good squirt of PB Blaster on everything the night before, then another squirt before you start.
    2. Don't mess around with the wrong kind of wrenches. Get a good set of line wrenches. They look like a box end wrench with a slot cut out so you can get it around the brake line. They are the best way to be sure you don't mess up one of those hard lines.

    I also forgot to say thanks to Henry and Greg for measuring their old lines for me. The measurements were right on for my car as well. Joel at Orme is going to start building a SOLID database of 308 lengths so this will not be a problem in the future. If you buy lines from him, he may still want a confirmation of the lengths of the stock ones until he is sure that we have this length issue settled.


    Birdman
     
  3. hanknum

    hanknum Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Henry
    Never a problem Jonathan. Everything should look great with those new QV wheels (what a deal!!!). I'm sure Lou is going to be thrilled with your "old" wheels.

    Also wanted to thank you for the fuse blocks...works great sitting on my work bench. I need to find time for these and my new cams.
     
  4. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    #54 Birdman, Nov 27, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Henry, the wheels showed up today and they look very nice. They were recently refinished. UPS managed to ding one, but it's a small chip. Still bums me out though. As long as they are nice and straight, I will be moving the tires to them this week and Lou will be getting my Superformance wheels. Not before I weigh them all though. We need solid info on the weight of the Superformance wheels. I'm betting they are not that much heavier.

    As for not putting in the fuseblocks because of "time"....I put a set in "Pizzaman" Chris's 308 at Verell's party and we timed it. It took me 20 minutes from start to finish, including taking off the dash cover and replacing it. I expect that someone who has never done it before might take 45 minutes at the outside. It's not exactly a weekend project!! ;)

    Here are a couple shots that Wiseman sent over from the "Ferrari Fix It Club" party at my place this weekend.

    Birdman
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  5. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
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    When I installed them in my '78, it took me a whole hour. But that was because I spent 1/2 hour running over to the auto parts store to buy the needed fuses. It is an easy job. The part that took the longest, other than buying the fuses, was using the marker to mark the wires. Excellent improvement to the car and no excuse not to do it NOW! In the time it will take to write a reply to this message, you can have yours installed. Listen to the Birdman, he knows from whence he speaks.

    "Ba-Ba-Ba Bird, Bird, Bird. Bird is the Word"
     
  6. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

    Mar 13, 2005
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    Oh man, he chip one of them.:( That s*cks. Is it on the outside?

     
  7. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    Yeah, it's on the outside edge. Oh well, what are ya gonna do? I could make a stink with UPS but they will say that they weren't packed well enough, or to get lost. And what am I gong to tell them? "Buy me another incredibly expensive, no longer made Ferrari wheel to replace this one."

    Birdman
     
  8. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
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    I can't see in the pic... but are those brake lines plastic coated or exposed stainless steel braiding?

    In Australia at least, road use regulations dictate that stainless brake lines must be plastic coated to prevent chafing...
     
  9. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
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    Aug 3, 2002
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    Mike Charness
    Hmmm, "Surfin' Bird" by the Trashmen. You're showing your age!! But I guess the fact that I recognize it shows mine too. :)
     
  10. vetroresina

    vetroresina Karting

    Dec 20, 2005
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    #60 vetroresina, Nov 28, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi guy's
    maybe i'm a little late with my respond but I use BF Goodrich with much satisfaction.
    The quality is proven en the mantle is surrounded with a transparant krimped hose to avoid dirt between the structure of the braided surface.
    I paid 85 Euro's for a complete set.
    I enclose a pic to show how it looks

    If you got questions, feel free to ask.

    Good luck,
    Marcel
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  11. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    Mine do NOT have plastic on the outside. They are braided stainless on the outside. Is that bad???

    Birdman
     
  12. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    #62 jwise, Nov 28, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

    Well, not bad, but if that line comes in contact with anything while those a-arms go up and down while driving, it will cut through pretty quickly.
    Just make sure they are clear of anything through the full range of motion.

    Just look around at all four corners after you have driven the car for a while- the next time it's on the lift.

    I was suprised they weren't covered when I was checking them out. By comparison- mine came covered in plastic.

    Obviously- if mine rub anywhere, it will wear through the plastic over time also.
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  13. rsvmille676

    rsvmille676 Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2004
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    Jonathan, Good times, good times! After looking at the pics that Mr.Wise provided. I am starting my diet after I get back from Disney. Other than that, it was great to see everyone again. I look forward to our next fix it club meeting.

    Hats off to pizzaman. Chris my friend you have come a long way in a short while with your wrenching efforts.

    Oh, and Jonathan, you'll have to tell me if that oil pan gasket leaks at all. I had that mating surface pretty darn clean. If it does leak, its Kenny's fault. ;)
     
  14. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

    Mar 13, 2005
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    It was a great time.
    Scotty, thank you for the kind words.:)

    And there's NO way that oil pan is going to leak, it was soooo smooth.







    And if it does leak, yes blame on Kenny. ;)
     
  15. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
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    Make a claim with UPS to have it refinished again. I had the same problem with UPS on some recently refinished QV wheels that were sent to me a few years ago...UPS paid up.
     
  16. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
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    Not bad, but would have been nice if they were. I didn't think anyone was making them without the plastic sleeve anymore...it became the standard two or three years ago.
     
  17. DMOORE

    DMOORE Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
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    Darrell

    The plastic just keeps the lines from chafing.
     
  18. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    I talked to Joel at Orme about it. They can do them that way if you want them to, but his opinion is that the plastic gets yellow and crappy looking in a couple years. If you use the stainless uncovered, you just hit them with some brake cleaner now and then and they look new again.

    Also, his opinion was that the lines should not rub on anything. If they do, the plastic will just wear through and then you still have the braid rubbing. It just prolongs the inevitable. They should not rub.

    I checked mine and I can't see how they would rub on anything, so I'm not worrying about it.

    Birdman
     
  19. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    Well I'm back with an update. The rotors are back on the car, nice and machined to look new. (The machinist asked: "What kind of car are these from? These are nice hard metal. You don't see rotors like these anymore.") The calipers were painted red (I used the kit from Eastwood. Works pretty well but you need to clean the calipers about 100 times with brake cleaner to get every molecule of oil off them or the paint doesn't stick! Ask me how I know...)

    All I can say is that putting the calipers back on is a HELL of a lot trickier than taking them off. Good lord, those spacer washers suck. I managed to hold them in place with a dab of lithium grease so they would stick while I fiddled with getting the bolts in. The rears aren't that bad, the fronts blow because of the dust shields around the rotors adding a level of complexity to the operation.

    Getting the little hard lines connected back up between the calipers and the SS lines isn't particularly easy either. The trick is to leave the outboard end of the SS line loose in the bracket so it can wiggle. Makes it easier to line up. Torque it down once the hard line is in and tight.

    I ran out of time yesterday and was not able to fill and bleed, so hopefully I can do that later today. Keep fingers crossed that brake fluid doesn't come squirting out in all directions. Time to see how bad my brake work is!

    In putting new brake pads in the rears, I had to adjust the infamous rear caliper adjuster screws, which involves removing that retarded allen head cover on the inside of the rear calipers. It's an aluminum plug with a 4 mm allen head, but the threads about about 3 times that size, so it basically strips the allen head instantly. I used the Fchat oft-recommended "cold chisel tangential whack" method to remove them and then ordered replacements with proper hex heads from a Porsche site:

    http://www.automotion.com/productpage.aspx?pid=100392&name=914+Rear+Brake+Caliper+Plugs

    The 914 uses the same calipers apparently. I'll post an update if they fit when they arrive. Fchatter "wise3" found them and made a reference to them on another thread, but never tested them. They are $11 pair.

    Interestingly there is no mention of the need to adjust these rear calipers to install new brake pads in either the owners manual or service manual. They both just say to have them inspected every so and so miles and replace when they are at the limit of specification. Seriously, go check the service manual. It's like they never heard of the rear brakes! Good thing for the internet. I guess that was Ferraris way of making sure you had to go to the dealer just to get new brake pads.

    I also read something on a website that these exact ATE calipers were made in aluminum for Porsche on a couple years of the 911. Which means that in theory, one could replace these heavy cast iron calipers with identical aluminum ones. Just food for thought.

    I have to say, these rotors look pretty girlie. My minivan has much beefier looking brakes than these. It's a good thing the wheels don't show the brakes through them that well!

    I'll post pics later.

    Birdman
     
  20. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    #70 Birdman, Dec 5, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's a pic of the finished painted calipers and the surfaced rotors. I wish someone made a kit where one could simply upsize the rotors on both ends and use the stock calipers. You would get a lot more braking for the pedal pressure without a huge outlay of cash. All you would need is bigger rotors and brackets to move the calipers out a bit.

    Girodisc????

    Birdman
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  21. spiderseeker

    spiderseeker Formula 3

    Jul 22, 2005
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    Birdman- there is a trick for doing the spacers, a little drop of superglue will hold them in place..
     
  22. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Griot's has a spray called Paint Prep.......


    Looking good!
     
  23. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
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    No, the pads surface area is too small. You need larger pads, thicker pads, better pads!!

    Plus, of course, the larger raduis means effectively the rotor is travelling faster so for any given speed, the brakes have to do a little bit more work... what you gain with larger rotors mostly... is modulation. Plus some heat dissipation.
     
  24. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    Yeah, that was Verell's suggestion on a thread I found from way back, but I figured by the time I got everything clean enough for superglue to stick and went out and bought some glue, I could just be done. WRONG! Use the superglue!!
     
  25. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    I hear what you are saying but there is the issue of leverage.
     

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