308 "Ticking" noise on startup?

Hope someone can help with this. I have a '79 308 GTS Euro. When I start it up cold, it makes a slight ticking sound. After about one minute, the sound goes away. It sounds like a sticky lifter I have in my '64 Olds Dynamic 88. I know the 308 does not have lifters. Could it be a wrong sized shim or pad? I put a stethoscope to it and although I could kind of hear it everywhere, it seems to be the strongest underneath the #3 sparkplug under the valve cover. It does not affect the power. It just annoys me. Any ideas on what to check? I would like to take care of it before it possibly becomes something serious. Thanks guys.

 

If it were a wrong-sized shim, creating too much clearance, it would not heat up, close up enough, and go away after only a minute of warming up.

Have you checked the water pump & A/C (if your car has A/C) belts? Pretty common for them to "snap" loudly when cold. It goes away pretty quickly as they warm up from the friction.

 

It was the AC belt on my car. Almost sounds like a very strong electrical arc. Scary really... Cut the belt off as a test and it went away.
- Ron

 

Thanks, I do not have AC on my car. I only have one belt from the water pump to the alternator. I put the stethoscope on the water pump and just heard a swirling and swooshing sound. I suspected the water pump as the car had sat for three years prior to my purchase. The PO has just performed an engine out 30K service including setting all of the valve clearances. He never really drove it after that due to registration problems. He would start it up every once in awhile and drive it around the airport where he had it parked in a hangar. I should also say that even after the car warms up, I can hear it very slightly if I really listen for it. If you rev the engine you cannot hear it, even when it is cold.

 

Not sure about the 308 which uses the same shims for the 2 valves, but I think it's the same, my Lancia and Fiat does the same thing and it turned out to be the valve clearance, I adjusted the clearance and the ticking went away during cold at start up.

 

Hard to say then...

You do realize these cars have solid tappets with clearances? So, some amount of lifter / camshaft "ticking" is a normal engine sound hot and cold --- question is whether yours is making more noise than "normal".

I can't say without actually hearing it. I suggest you swing by a shop in your area, who is familiar with Ferrari's, and ask someone to have a quick listen. It will take them about 5 seconds to tell you if it is "normal" --- and, then give the tech a $10 bill so he can buy himself lunch

If he says it's not normal --- you should schedule an appointment

Being that the car is fresh (mileage wise) from a valve adjustment, the clearances should be correct. It's possible (though highly unlikely) that you tossed a shim --- never seen it happen --- but it's theoretically possible.

 

check your spark plug extenders - it may be arcing until the engine warms up.

 

Ditto checking the plug extenders. An easy way to check this is to simply start her up in a dark garage and look for the light show.

And, an excessively open valve clearance will be louder at cold start up than warm. Usually it's not just one valve that has excessive clearance. Obviously, worth re-shimming any/all valves that are out of spec since you'll be taking out the cam anyway. As I recall, the cups are offset so that the lobe doesn't wear in any one spot but it's possible I guess that you may have had a lobe wear in a particular spot on a cup (or one lobe wearing excessively, or, carbon build up on one valve seat). No doubt, with the valve cover off things will be more apparent.

Good luck!

 

the belts are part plastic and are know to make weird noises I have had them on one belt but not the next.

 

V shims!!!

 

I'd bet on the v belts. Whether you have AC or not the belts will take a set in cooler climates and make varying degrees of noise upon cold startup. It is the wierdest thing because you are SURE the engine is grinding itelf to pieces but as soon as the belts warm up the noise disappears. Been there done that and spent TONS of time chasing the wrong thing.

 

That is a great, "old timer" trick --- make sure you pull the dust / water boots back first so you can view the lower portion of the extenders for arcs as well

 

Well MARTY ---

You've been given (3) different things to check --
1) V-belts
2) Plug extenders
3) Valve clearances

The first 2 are easy (and free) to check, the 3rd is not. So, you may want to check that last

Let us know what you find out if you get it resolved. Good luck to you.

 

On my old GT4 it was the A/C belt as well...I replaced all belts and the noise went away...It sounded like a loud static noise and would last for a minute or so just on startup..

 

Yep, I can't recall which belt it was but definitely the first minute or so you could hear a clicking sound in my car as well. It's a bit off putting at first.

(my cars been a way for a few years but it was a little white toothed belt from memory)

 

When I first got my "old 308", and heard it for the first time, the belt snap was so loud and dramatic that I thought I'd dropped a valve !!!! It even sounds like it's coming from under the valve covers --- until you put your nose right next to the belt when it's acting up

It's even worse on the Boxers (which use the same, silly plastic belts) --- because it sounds even more $$$$$$$$$$ !!!

 

Thanks guys for all the directions. I will check out each one and let you all know what happens. Again, thank you very much for the help and ideas.

 

UPDATE. The mystery continues. No light show from the plug wires. No noise from the belt. But, I did notice something quite by accident. When I push in the clutch, the noise goes away completely. I normally start the car in neutral with the clutch disengaged. Then I get out and let it warm up for 5 to 10 minutes before I drive it. This is when I usually hear the slight ticking sound. Today I started the car and stayed inside it for a minute. I could hear the ticking ever so slightly. Out of boredom I pushed the clutch pedal in and the ticking stopped. I let the pedal out, and it started ticking again. I had a friend get in the car while I listened from the engine bay. When I told him to push in the clutch, the ticking went away. Although the clutch was installed almost 4 years ago, it has less than 250 miles on it. It works fine, engages smoothly, no funny vibrations. WTF? Could this just normal mechanical noise?

 

Huh......

A couple of possibilities come to mind --- in no particular order...

1) Loose finger spring (or several) on the pressure plate
2) Loose contact flange on the pressure plate
*3) Worn / loose throw-out bearing or retainer clips
*4) Worn / loose release fork or fork bushing

(*) 3 & 4 are not sure because I cannot remember whether the t-out bearing is actually in contact with the p-plate when the clutch is engaged (pedal not depressed), on the earlier cars --- they changed the clutch release assembly in about 1980 for the later cars.

Maybe someone else can chime in on that point ?

Regardless, I really wouldn't worry about it. If the clutch is working, I would wait until it eventually fails or wears out completely before replacing / fixing it --- it's fairly easy DIY clutch replacement, but it is time consuming and not cheap for the parts.

 

Thanks. Yep I just think I'll keep an eye, or ear, on it. No problems with shifting or running. Yet. Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

I forgot one..........

5) Loose hardware (rebound spring, rivet, etc) on the clutch disc. In fact, one of the springs could actually be broken and rattling --- it's no problem as the springs are captive.

This doesn't change my prior recommendation for what to do about it, though --- enjoy driving the car until you HAVE to R&R the clutch

 

Funny thing, I had exactly same thing happening on my 328... But stopped doing it. The weather has gotten warmer thought... It was definitely a ''cold'' thing.