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308 Transmission Gearing - US vs. Euro

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by targanero, Nov 16, 2005.

  1. targanero

    targanero Formula 3

    May 31, 2005
    1,647
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    Simon
    I know that some of the 5spd and final drive gear ratios were changed between certain model years, but were US cars built with different gear ratios than their European counterparts during a given year?

    Basically, do all '85 308s (Euro and US market) have the same gears?

    Thanks.
     
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  3. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
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    If no one helps right away with this, I'll dig up my old magazines from way back then (including the overseas publications) and type in what the differences are.

    I am waiting because this will be a bit of a "dig" for me but I will be happy to do it.
     
  4. Michael308GTBi

    Sep 10, 2005
    3
    Definitive, No !!!!

    The US Model is the Car with the largest gear ratios.....i don´t know why,
    the Swiss Model is the car with the shortest gear ratio and the European Model are between US and Swiss.
     
  5. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    They also had different gear ratios, not just final drive and they changed year to year and market to market.
     
  6. BigAl

    BigAl F1 Veteran

    Mar 17, 2002
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    so....would the euros be geared for a higher top end?
     
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  8. Watry

    Watry Karting

    Aug 8, 2005
    78
    Berkeley, CA
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    Andrew Watry
    The "Original Ferrari V8" book lists the various gear ratios. There are always a ton of them for sale on ebay, and at better prices through various online booksellers through bookfinder.com.

    I can look up at home if someone doesn't have the book handy.

    Andrew Watry
     
  9. ham308

    ham308 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    358
    NE Switzerland
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    Richard Ham
    #7 ham308, Nov 17, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    here's the original V8 info, (hope it's legible). Personally, i'm not much wiser having looked at it.

    If all the engines were equal, which car would accelerate quickest??
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. BigAl

    BigAl F1 Veteran

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    thnx for posting Richard. i'd be interested in someone interpreting the numbers.
     
  11. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    With all those different ratios and people arguing about which 308 has more HP, they should look at this chart, they might come to the conclusion that it isnt so much the engine differences as it is the weight of the car, and the transmission gearing etc...
     
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  13. Dr.T348

    Dr.T348 Formula 3

    Jan 8, 2004
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    Richard T.

    I would agree. If you look at Us gear ratio's 1st and 2nd are much lower. This gives you better drivability in trafic. It however requires shift to 3rd gear to reach 60 mph. This is the main reason the US model is slower in 0-60 run. The Euro will do 60 in 2nd and is almost 1 sec quicker in 0-60 because of that.
     
  14. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    good point, so rather than go nuts on the engine, do a combo and swap in a Euro gearbox and get bigger gains.
     
  15. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
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    It is not necessarily THAT easy because of the power to weight ratio. The US model is a few hundred pounds heavier than the Euro equivalent stock to stock. i THINK US stock weight is around 3,350 lbs and Euro is about 3,100 lbs. Not home to get my figures on all this.

    In fact the Euro car here, after mods to beef up safety and lower weight in many areas, has resulted in a car around 2,900 lbs wet with 1/2 tank of gas and with 175 lbs driver (am not home to give EXACT figure). As i recall, a stock US car with same driver weight and gas would result in about 3,400 lbs.

    So to compare to a stock USA car... that is 500 lbs of added weight for the engine/tranny to move! (or about 1/7th more weight) This is A LOT of weight and so the tranny gearing needs to compensate. In fact i have been debating going with drop gears so for various tracks i could change out the ratio to better optimize shifting patterns. But drop gears for my purpose are a different issue than because of the MUCH HIGHER weight of the USA car.
     
  16. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    On the subject of weight, a friend of mine weighed a 79 GTB (same as mine, even the original colour too) and it weighed in at 3080lbs. This is a US spec car but the pump and converters were long gone, aside from that the car was in tact right down to working a/c. Guess they plumped out a bit when they went with CIS like yours. I plan on having a sub 3000lb car when Im done and more HP.
     
  17. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
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    I weighed my 84 308 at Roebling a year ago. 3153lbs
     
  18. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    just cheched the numbers here. weight is 2,936 wet, 1/2 tank, w/175 lbs driver... and the AC is still in her. i really need to dump the AC, but as a daily driver and the wife demands AC in the summer...

    Dr. TC, just wondering gas level and is that figure with driver (at ??what?? weight)? Am trying to get a good idea where the car here stands now as she is in winter storage and we are going to do more mods :)
     
  19. Matt Morgan, "Kermit"

    Matt Morgan, "Kermit" Formula Junior

    Nov 12, 2003
    405
    Ferndale, WA
    Some time back,I did a study on overall drive ratios in fourth gear. Most Dyno shops want you to use fourth and figure it at a 1:1 ratio, and it isnt.
    1:12 or 1:24 are used. The Mondy's for example use the 1:24 and the final drive ratio works out to 1:505, while the 308 Challenge had the " longest legs" @ 1:415 overall, a considerable spread.
    Chassis dyno's use a weighted drum (usually 850 lbs) as the "test load", and the time it takes to accelerate that mass is computed to arrive @ the given readings.
    I still haven't gotten comfortable with the standard way of punching in 1:1, across the board as a true comparison with a spread like that. The gear advantage of a lower drive would apply more twisting effort (torque). So how can it be a valid comparison?
    In answer to the '85 question, the ratio on the US model was 1:455, while the Euro is 1:428 (Challenge version being 1:415).
    Kermit
     
  20. branko

    branko F1 Rookie
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    Mar 17, 2003
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    Were you in the car and how much gas was in the tank?
     
  21. Dr.T348

    Dr.T348 Formula 3

    Jan 8, 2004
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    The book lists the 308 QV at 3229 lbs. I think thats wet weight with fluids in car. After replacement of exhaust and test pipes with new euro bumper I'm sure mine weighs less too.

    I think in ratio to stock euro vs us cars alot if not all of the difference between 0 - 60 times has to do more with gearing than a 100 lbs. curb weight.
     

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