These things happen...if nothing else I can cut the end off and have the start of a pair of 308 cams for someone....hopefully they'll be ok though.
Yeah but you started a couple years ahead or me Congrats on getting it running! I missed that....it must feel really good! On the the Boxer cams
The part model and drawings are all fixed up.....I ordered 2 more pieces of steel this morning I could save one by using a spacer behind the sprocket, but it just seems better not to. Back to drilling.
The measurements were right....the calculator (ProE) simply didn't add them properly. There is a ray of hope though. When I sawed the blanks I left them long by a little over ½ and because I did it looks like I should be able to take the 2 blanks started as 1 & 2, flip them over, use what was the front of the 1st lobe as the back of the last lobe, finish them as cams 3&4 and have over 1/32 to spare Im going to go over all the drawing dimensions tonight to be sure everything is right at this point and if so we (Bill) can get back to cutting tomorrow.
Mark, I have read your thread, very interesting, but what are you going to do when its finished, we wont have anything exotic to talk about anymore, maybe you could put a allison v12-1710 in one of these littls cars, now that would be something we could all marvel at.... but seriously could you post a few pics of the cams and the carriers ? if possible, and a pic of how you plan to deal with the cooling, trans mounts and just out of curiosity is there a cg point to deal with , thanks for the great thread, you certainly are a man with vision, or just a man on a mission, have a good night....
Can you name anything more exotic? How many 400 engines do you know of that have Testarossa heads on them? Have you really read the entire thread? Most of your questions are answered in the pictures...
It is a interesting thread, and yes I read it, but I was just asking for more photos if possible, there doesnt seem to be any in the last few threads unless my computer isnt opening them for some reason. thanks
I think this project is about as silly as I'm willing to go these days. I built a 500ci fiat years ago...that was way over the silly line, not quite an allison silly but pretty close and I don't want to build any more undriveable cars The pictures have been a bit light lately....there hasn't been much action to take pictures of. Here's a pic of me checking each and every dimension on each and every drawing. The drawings will go to the machinist in the morning and there will be NO mistakes this time around. To your other questions .they have been talked about a little but there are so many pages at this point Ill re-cap. I have no idea what Im going to do with the cooling system as far as plumbing. Im sure the radiator and fan I already have will be fine, but I need to think about the engine compartment stuff a bit. I need to figure out the oil system too. Its going to need to be a dry sump so that will need some though and planning as far as the return pump, tank, cooler, ect. Ill be using the stock trans mounts on the bottom and a custom torque arm up top, Ill probably re-work the TR cam cover to add a mount similar the OEM QV mount. I want to do a little work on the cam covers anyway to narrow them and add a Ferrari logo. It should have a very OEM look when its done. The CG will be lower than when I was running the QV engine with the supercharger so Im not too worried .it won autocrosses the way it was and it will be better now. I think it will be a touch little too but Im not sure about this one. Image Unavailable, Please Login
It just occured to me to go look at the room between the valve springs and the head nut. When I open the intake valve spacing 2mm I'll lose 1mm on each side of the head nuts. It's going to get a bit tight but it looks ok. I'm really hoping to get the intake flow high enough to actually be able to use the monster way oversize exhaust ports ferrari put in their '80s 4v heads for god only knows what reason.....which reminds me I need to call to check on the status of the 34mm intake test valves. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Ok. The cams are back under way. Reusing the 2 blanks that are started will mean my intake cam for cylinders 1-6 will come up a bit short on the distributor end but since I’m not planning to run a distributor I’m not concerned. I can always make a simple spacer to correct it if I change my mind on the distributors later and if I do run a distributor it will almost certainly be a US cap and rotor so I’d need to make the rotor mounts anyway. Hopefully there will be no more surprises on the cams. I got a call from the shop that has the block this morning with good news and bad news. It seems today is finally the day to get started so that’s the good news. The bad news was that the Ferrari service manual says that when line boring the cylinder liners should be in the block, heads on and torque but since I don’t have the liners or studs made that is not possible. Most engines are not done that way so I told them to just proceed and I’ll check it when I have the parts to make the assembly and I can always have it cleaned up if it’s out of spec then....again hopefully there wil be no more surprises......
Why not use a torque-arm-mount like on the carb and i 308? It is a bolt-on version where the QV has one moulded in to the cam cover. Using this one you don't have to rework the cam cover.
That is the other option and I may go that way. I prefer the look of the molded in mount on the QV but it might not be worth the effort.....it will most like depend on how much ambition I have left when I get to that point.
I certainly think, at least initially, the bolt-on mount would give you the most options as well as being most expedient.
Tonight's project was to get back to intake flow. I set up to move the valve guide holes 2mm apart. I'll just rough in the 1 cylinder for now and see how the flow goes as I set up valve sizes. I'm hoping I don't need to go over 32mm but I can go to 34 if needed. I need to make a larger adapter for the flow bench too. The one I was using is 81mm but I need to go up to the 86.5mm the new liners will be to get accurate numbers. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
It would....which is why I will almost certainly convince myself not to do it. Seriously though. I moved the engine forward almost 3 inches and the “V” is also a lot narrower so the stock torque arm should be about 5 inches too short. That would make a pretty long weak bracket. Lengthening the torque arm is the only good option and I’d like to do that only once so whatever I do will be the way it stays. My first choice is the QV style but if it comes out in a bad spot for some reason I’ll make a separate bracket like the 2v engines I guess.
It's a little hard to see, but the guide holes are now 1mm off the original centers. Tomorrow I'll flip the head over and cut the seats to match as well as open up the ID 3mm as a place to start. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I opened up the seats to about where they would want to be for a 33mm valve....they look a lot better now that they're big enough for the stock valve valve to drop right though the seat Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Put the little one to bed and went back to the shop for a little bit. I made a couple valve guide like pieces to hold the valves for flow bench work and they drop in nicely. I don't have anything to use for valves yet, I'll probably make a pair of stems and bolt on heads so I can change the size and shape easily until I figure out what exactly I want and order real valves. I'm going to use 5.5mm honda stems instead of the 7mm ferrari stems. The one picture is of a 5.5mm drill next to the 7mm ferrari valve so you can see how much smaller 1.5mm actually looks. I found 2001-up Acura RSX type S valves may be exactly what I need so there might be some off the shelf parts in this thing after all! The heads are 35mm though and I has hoping not to need to go that big...although I'm running a slightly larger bore than that engine so they should fit or I could cut them down pretty easily. We'll see. I went ahead and roughed in the port/seat blend so it's ready to base line the flow numbers. The seat was opened about 4mm so the port really should be opened up 4mm as well but I like to work slow checking flow often to be sure what I'm doing helps so there won't be any more grinding in the port until I get it on the flow bench. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I got started on waht will be the test valves tonight but didn't have much time, I'll finish them Monday I guess. Bill got started on the reworking the 2 cams today, they should be sorted out Monday too. I'm thinking it's a clear sign that this project is completely out of control when I can post a picture of a head with guide holes all in the wrong place and seats blown out so big the original valves drop right though and nobody even bothers to point out that I'm clearly an idiot...and there's still a long way left to go Image Unavailable, Please Login
Mark, I've been looking in here every once in a while too stunned to say much, great effort though! It's looking really good.
Mark, I think you are a talented person, please keep this thread going, I love to pop in and read what you are up to, Paul
At this stage I don't dare breathe loudly, let alone post, for fear of distracting you. Certainly got a few balls in the air atm but your juggling skills seem up to the task. Doesn't help when the software ambushes you though. Looking forward to the flow testing. Untill then its back to lurking, checking the thread daily, as I have little to add than superlatives.
Me too....that's where all the hp comes form I have a motorcycle with 430cc/ cylinder that made 45 rwhp/cylinder at about 8400rpm and 30 rwft/lb torque at 6500. The heads flow 148 cfm@10" H2O, but I know the 40mm carbs where choking it a little (going to a 38mm cost 5 rwhp per cylinder), I'm pretty sure with 44s on it it would have made about 50 rwhp/cylinder at about 8800-9000 rpm which is about 59-60 crank hp per cylinder. If I can hit 148 cfm though the throttle body I on this engine I should get the same 60 hp/cylinder at 8800-9000 rpm for 720 hp. This engine has 6.5% more displacement so in theory it could used 6.5% more air so if I can hit 158cfm it should make 770. Those numbers are really close to what my computer is saying it too, the computer is saying 167 cfm gets me 716 at 8500 with mufflers or 810 without mufflers, so clearly the computer is assuming the mufflers stuff up the engine a bit and clearly I'm not going to install mufflers that are too small and do stuff up the engine. When I take the restrict the computer's head flow to 158 it says 766hp....which is almost an exact match to the empirically derived number I have so I'd say the numbers are reasonable and should be close.....and that's a lot of hp Now I just need to make the flow numbers.....
