308 V12 conversion begins | Page 56 | FerrariChat

308 V12 conversion begins

Discussion in '308/328' started by mk e, Oct 9, 2007.

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  1. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

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    You got your block back before i got my heads done?? What's up with that?? :)


    That's great!
    Now lets see what kind of magic they did on the old block.
     
  2. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #1377 mk e, Aug 12, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

    It look a lot like it did when it went out....but straighter :)

    I did a quick test fit up tonight….it actually looks like there’s hope that it might not some day! Finally the pics Newman has been waiting for.

    ….I’m not so sure about my compressor though. It made a bad sound……although maybe with a bit of weld.....:p
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  3. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

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    Lift on those cams in the engine pic looks ok but I'd have to say you have a little too much duration :) Stick with a belt drive compressor. I had one direct drive and couldn't wait to get rid of it. I'll never own one again unless I'm just filling up bicycle tires with it.
     
  4. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Pretty damned cool!
     
  5. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

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    Those are his full race versions. You cant make HP with the valves closed.
     
  6. Hans

    Hans F1 Veteran

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    Well, at least it's easy on the cams and valves.

    Might as well weld those valves fixed in the open position, or will that warp the heads again?
     
  7. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    I love it! whats the next hurdle? Are you past the mega fabrication stage yet?
     
  8. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    That's a fine looking Ferrari Eberhardt 12
     
  9. jbarr89

    jbarr89 Rookie

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    you know, you do have a V12 sitting there..........
    maybe you could rig that up to your compressor.









    just a thought
     
  10. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    #1385 GrigioGuy, Aug 13, 2008
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  11. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    Yeah, the cam guy thought 720 degrees might be a bit much but I wanted to give it a try :D
     
  12. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #1387 mk e, Aug 13, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2008
    I thought you'd like that. I still need to add bosses to the heads to bolt the chain cover to, but the major stuff looks like it will work at this point.

    The next hurdle where mega fabrication is required is to get the bell housing and drop gears on.....since I very cleverly changed the engine position relative to the tranmision input shaft.

    I also have to figure out where to install the drysump return pump. I'd really like it inside the engine/sump and chain driven if there is any possible way to do it. I have a 360 oil pump sitting here that I can work a deal to keep if it looks like I can use it.....it's going to take some thought to come up with something nice and clean looking.
     
  13. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I'm still working on it, thanks for the pics. I thing your injectors are right about where I have mine mounted right now.....I was going to lower them another inch with new bosses, but yours doesn't look too bad....more thinking.
     
  14. KKRace

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    There was a company named Barns that makes/made direct drive drysump systems for race engines. They were for American Iron and used mostly by the dirt track guys since belt driven pumps can be a problem in dirt. Maybe they have something that could work?
     
  15. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I've seen them and that is a good option. I'd like the pump inside, but if that looks like too much bother, right on the front end of the crank seems like a good spot.
     
  16. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #1391 mk e, Aug 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    He's not fast, but he's almost always right :)

    I got a little of Vic's time tonight to talk cams and flow. He thinks a little more duration than I was thinking, 235-240. He's thinking 240 if I'm running the compression up at 10:1 or higher and that will yeild about 770hp with a flow of 150....within a couple % of the estimates I was getting.

    I've got a trip the Alaska next week but when I get back I'm going to run up to NY, pick up the QV heads and see what flow numbers I get on the TR head on Vic's flow bench to make sure we're on the same page ad also get some advice on cutting seats.
     
  18. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #1393 mk e, Aug 14, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I'm going to be off to alaska until the 25th, but I really wanted a quick look at the bell housing mess before I went so I can ponder it over the next few days while smiling (becasue I'm drinking) and pretending to care about trees and ice (I sure hope Lana's not reading this :) )

    I cleaned up the trans end casting enough to get it to fit on and slapped the bell housing on in about the right place. I have a flange that fits the engine, it was the trans adapter. I'm thinking I can chop about an inch off the bell housing casting and may weld on that flange.....then do something about the trans shaft and idler bearing, I guess weld in a chunk of bar stock and cut it the way I want it. Maybe......although having seem me in action I'll most likely think of a much harder way in the end :p
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  19. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    One thing that will need to happen is to extend the hub on the trans gear. While I’m at it I’d like to swap the engine and trans gears, that will drop the engine rpms and lower the torque the transmission sees.

    My plan was to wire EDM the existing hubs out of both gears leaving a much larger spline then make new hubs to match the gears but with the internal features to work with the shafts I want to put them on. I’m pretty sure it would work fine but 1 piece gears would be neater and stronger…..but having custom gears ground is really not in the budget.

    While I was talking to Jay, the EDM guy about the hubs he told me he was pretty sure he could wire EDM a helical gear……..very interesting. Now I need to figure out how to model the gears in ProE and he’ll give it a try. Very Cool.
     
  20. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #1395 mk e, Aug 15, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I was cleaning up a little tonight and looking at stuff. I noticed how thin the metal is on the clutch hub....which made me thing that the trans gear will probably be just fine if I open the hub up to fit the clutch shaft. I'll have about 0.1" of metal which is about double what the clutch hub has. Just saved myself having to make 1 gear :)

    I think way up on the has to happen list is I need to drop the crank in the block so I can figure out exactly what I can do with the flywheel and clutch mounting so I know how much I can shorten the bellhousing. I'm pretty sure I can take out at least 1 inch, I'm hoping it's closer to 2".

    Edit: I'm waiting for a guy who wants to look at the bike I have for sale so I did a quick measure of everything.....I'll be lucky to be able to cut out 1/2".....it looks like there is SOOOO much space until you try to fit everthing in there. Shoot.....
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  21. jbarr89

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    the suspense is killing me, please give us an update ASAP!!!!!
     
  22. KKRace

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    #1397 KKRace, Aug 19, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I wonder if there is an Italian version of a Tilton or Ram clutch that would fit in there. The ones we use contain all the mating surfaces within the clutch and mount to a flexplate from an automatic. 6.25 inches in dia. Not sure if that would help or hurt since it sounds like thickness is more of a problem then dia? Or even the older style Tilton where you use the old flywheel but machine most of the friction surface away down to the 6.25" dia and drill through holes through the flywheel for studs to mount the pressure plate to the flywheel. Get rid of the cable clutch and put in a hydraulic throwout bearing and now your really talking something nice to drive.
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  23. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    It's killing me too....but I'm on a ship off the coast of Alaska so no news until I get home in a couple days.
     
  24. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I have a tilton 7.25" triple disc carbon/carbon clutch I'll be using. It worked very well with a modified cable linkage, but I may go hydraulic this time if I can save any space that way.
     
  25. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

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    Do you do work for the NAVY? There are only a few things I can think of worth operating a ship off the coast of Alaska this time of year, and about zip that would get me out there. A cruise, a crab, or military intelligence/testing. Im thinking your probably not out there for crabs, and its near the end of the cruise season.

    Cueing up Magnum PI music......
     

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