Hello, I've begun looking more seriously at purchasing one of these cars, and in so doing I'm having a difficult time trying to figure out what determines the value of a particular example. For instance, why is the car in this solicitation (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1983-FERRARI-308-GTSi-QV-RED-CREMA-ONLY-17K-SERVICED-/180686916000?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2a11c789a0) worth so much more than this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1981-GTBI-RARE-coupe-excellent-condition-/220802583972?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3368dc0da4)? Yes, one is a QV, but how is that worth THAT much more when the difference is only what, about 20HP? You could pull that much more out of the 2V motor without trying too hard. And what about color? For me, a red GTS is worth half what a GTB in any other color is worth...An example in perfect, or even really good mechanical condition is actually worth less than one that will need work. Working on it is what really makes the car 'yours', and reflects who YOU are, not just what money can buy. It's a LOT of fun too! So...is the market really that caught up with pristine red GTSs, or is something else at work? Rick
Not sure I understand what you're asking... You're comparing a Black 81 with 60K, black seats, red console,metric wheels and a GT4 spare to a red/tan QV in MINT condition with 17k on the clock?? Certainly the dealer asking $50K for the QV ain't gonna get it- But clearly you're looking at a roughly high $30s-$40K car compared to a $22K car here... depending on the date of the last major.
The GTS is priced pretty high but being sold by a high-end specialty dealer who wants a profit, the GTB by a private seller who just wants it sold. The GTS has less than 1/3 the mileage of the GTB and appears pristine, and well documented. These are critical elements for potential collector and can't be bought. Color has little bearing on price but there's no denying that a red Ferrari is iconic. Same for the GTS vs GTB, at least in 308s. They make a difference for first-time Ferrari shoppers. If anything, black paint takes a hit for being considered by many as high maintenance and showing every minor flaw. Lastly, asking price means little. Wait until these two sell and see what the spread is.
Nail hit squarely on the head. Sellers motivation is the biggest factor at play here. The GTB will likely sell, while the QV will probably be back on ebay several times over several months (if not longer). If you are really trying to compare 308 values on ebay, or anything else for that matter, do yourself a favor and just keep an eye on the 'completed listings'. Just as in real estate asking price means virtually nothing, you can ask $10M for a 500 sq ft shack in downtown Detroit if you wanted, but it has no bearing on the market.
I see 308s all the time on eBay, cars.com, etc and NONE of them sell. For some reason quite a few of the 308 owners think that their cars have hit the classic status that we think that they someday will. The only cars that are really changing hands are the ones in the 20s. Low 20s for 80-82. Mid 20s for the 82-83. High 20s for the 84-85s. There will always be outliers but those are actual selling prices right now.
Again agreed. Not sure if I have ever seen a premium priced Ferrari for sale on ebay from a dealer ever sell in the last several years I have spent keeping track of the market. Again pointing out how futile it is to keep track of asking prices on ebay for 3x8s. The ebay market does seemed to have upticked by a grand or two over the last year though.
I certainly agreed with you while reading your post, but a quick check of completed eBay auctions showed some surprising results: 1982 GTB, sold for $31,000 1982 GTS sold for $30,300 1980 GTS sold for $30,685 Granted, they all looked like nice cars, but I thought this was pretty strong money for 2-valve injected cars...
That's interesting. I wonder how many other cars have such discrepancies between perceived and real market value? You'd think after a while sellers would get a clue. I have to admit though, there are some examples offered in the classified section of this board that fall into that category. I really like the 308s, but not for any reasons related to it being a collector item. I want to work on it, drive it, then repeat. Can ANYTHING from the late 70's-80's be considered 'classic'.
I have always wondered what ends up happening to the overpriced, mediocre cars that end up at some of these dealers. The only type of a buyer I could ever see purchasing these cars are the "impulsive" types that end up on the lot with a lot of cash and a comparable amount of little knowledge and sense. I just don't see too many of those types of folks lingering around car lots these days in this economy though.
Every car has a different set of pluses and minuses for you. By the time you've checked out 40 or so cars, you will understand what determines the real price for you. Soon the offerings, 2V vs 4V or GTS vs GTB or carb vs CSI or color or mileage become either less important to you, or imperative to you. Then it is primarily condition of those items important to you which determines value and that one car meant for you will pop out and call for your wallet. I.e. forget about pricing of those factors unimportant to you and in the beginning you don't really know what those factors are.
I have no idea why anyone really conciders HP in these cars as a buying point. I also don't know why people want to throw around mileage because anytime a low mile car comes up for conversation the majority say the speedo was disconected. Hey you want a GTBI let me know I might be selling mine.
+1 CONDITION is the key point in determining the value of any car. That is why there is a rating scale of 1 to 6 that all appraisers and auction houses use to reach a selling price. Most of the stuff on flea bay is usually a condition 3 car or less. If you want a 308QV that rates a 1 expect to pay close to $50K such as the car referred to by the OP. As far as the mileage issue is concerned there are several ways the confirm what is shown on the odometer. Those cars that have had the speedometer disconnected and have been driven 30K miles more than shown can be very easily detected.
True, you need to look at selling price, not asking price. And the "for you" part is spot-on. Supposedly, a red-over-tan GTS is what everyone wants, but I wanted a GTB and I wanted it a color other than red. I have seen an injected 308 with 50k miles sell near $40 grand just because the buyer had to have that car. Keep in mind that sellers will ask whatever price they want - and, sometimes, for whatever reason, a buyer will pay far more than market value. So look at selling prices and establish your own median range from what you can find. Then, when you find the car you do want, keep in mind that there might be a buyer who would pay a ridiculous sum just to have that car.
It is very expensive to take a decent driver to mint condition. An additional 15-20k in purchase price could be cheaper than doing it after purchase.
"For some reason quite a few of the 308 owners think that their cars have hit the classic status that we think that they someday will. " That will occur when there's maybe 100 of them left!
To the OP, I would recommend that if you are a serious buyer you go look at and drive some cars. The reason for the difference in pricing will become clear pretty quick. Seeing, hearing, and feeling for yourself is really the best barometer. You won't have to look at too many examples so start to get a good feel for what makes a beater, a driver, or a great 308.
If you are not a mechanic, have someone do a thorough PPI. You need to know what the car needs. It helps a lot if you have a mechanic familiar with 308's give the good look so you know not only what but how much. You do not want a car with significant rust. Unless your idea of fun is rebuilding engines(and you have a well fitted out shop), you do not want a car with a weak cylinder. Service records will tell you a lot about the car and owner . You need to know when the belts were done and little stuff, like bearing packs, coolant flush, alignment. I would steer clear of a crash repair or one with persistent electrical gremlins, (308's are simple and not really inclined to big electrical troubles but have commonflaws like fuse box melt downs and slow windows. So, a well sorted car with a very clear PPI is probably the "cheapest" and best way to go, unless you just like to tinker and not drive the car Pay the bucks for a clean car, even if it has 50-70k miles. HTH, chris
I wouldn't say you have started looking seriously if you have been focused on surfing eBay. As far as values, as others have said it comes down to condition and mileage. Most people want red, which happens to be far and away the commonest color, so that has little to do with value. Most people buy Ferraris to drive on nice days on public roads, so most people want a GTS, which is commoner than a GTB. (308s are such low performance cars by modern standards that it's kind of like Jag enthusiasts droning on about how the Jag XK150 Fixed Head Coupe is more rigid than the Roadster...) If you can get out to Concorso Italiano in Monterey, or attend some FOC or FCA gatherings, you will learn what separates an eBay 308 (a car that someone wants to sell somewhat anonymously to a newbie) from a good one. And, you will probably get a good lead on a good car. Also, these events are an incredible experience. Lol. Yes, fortunately I don't think anyone needs to look at 40 cars to find a good 308. What he said In general, you get what you pay for. These cars are old, so at the "bargain" end of the scale you're getting a 30-year old suspension, patched up electrics that weren't great to begin with, re-dyed leather, aftermarket wheels, mismatched paint, etc. Once you've seen a really nice 308, all of the $25K cars start to stand out like a local pet store puppy loose on the floor at the Westminster Kennel Club show. What he said. Until you see and drive the cars, you just don't know. They all look fine on eBay.
I agree with your sentiments. Unfortunately, odds are whatever I will get will be bought sight unseen beyond photos, and yes, I know the ramifications of this. I work every weekend, so getting to events of any kind is out. As such, as far as condition goes, my expectations are conservative...as good a cosmetic condition as possible, all the parts are there, and that it doesn't come to me having dropped a valve, thrown a rod, or something similar that would double or triple the cost of a rebuild. It's not the best way to go about buying a car, but it's the situation I'm in. Thank you all for your suggestions and insight. Rick
It's hard to establish the value of a car by a few pictures posted on the internet, you have to look at them. I.e. a month ago my nephew asked me to take a look of couple used Lexus that he saw internet for him, from the pictures they all look shiny, but when we went to take a look, some of them had orange peeled repainted, one with an after-market hood, brakes that barely worked, worned out leather seats...
As much as you work maybe a more modern (C6) car would be more enjoyable. Either you spend the time and money to maintain the breed or you right allot of checks! Just sayin! Lost
Based upon your situation either work with a highly reputable dealer that regularly handles 308s or find a private owner that has had the car for a while. In either case try to get a comfort level with what they are telling you about the condition. With the private owner find someone that isn't a flipper or did one or 2 seasons until maintenance was due. One dealer that is regularly mentioned on this forum as honorable and handles 308s is Pete Sweeney in Ct. As for maintenance needs one can argue that getting a good solid car that is due for a major can be preferable. This route allows you to have the major done to the level that will make you comfortable instead of someone that may have been more interested in low price. Jeff
