308 VIN number question

I am on the verge of buying what I thought was a 1985 308 GTS QV with a chassis number 52073. I happened to find a 308 QV Register site and noticed the registered 1984 models started at 48801 and the last one was 52793. The first of the 1985 registered cars started with a chassis number in the 52800's. There didn't appear to be any overlapping of VIN sequences according to this site. According to the plate on the 308 I am considering buying it has a manufactured date of 9/1985.

Is there a logical explanation for this or is there something funny going on here?

Any input would be helpful.

 

It was just titled late when originally sold.......we were chatting about it today in 308 Section....go by the door plate, but sometimes the paperwork doesn;t reconcile exactly...if it is a good car, go for it!

 

That site compliles all cars registered there....use Cavallino or other sources for actual VIN ranges....

All USA cars can also be verified with DOT if any questions arise.......

 

BigTex,

Thanks for the reply - I like the answer. But I have to say I am curious as to why the one I want to buy is the only one I see that is the "exception". All of the 308's registered on this site (www.308qvregister.com) fall in line with the VIN numbering/year scheme. Granted not all 308 QV owners around the world have chosen to register their car on this site.

Thanks again!

 

In addition to DOT checking for legal importation, you could contact Ferrari North America for customer assistance and see if they could explain it.....

It often happend that cars were pulled for special uses....shows...press duty..who knows?

*shrugs shoulders*

Read a book "Inside Ferrari"....final QC could send it back for paint respray or various issues.

Pretty common in older times for VIN numbers to "pass" each other on the assembly line, for arcane reasons known only to Enzo.......much mystery surrounds these cars, grasshopper.

It wasn't a robotic line like today, at GM or Toyota!

At the end of the day you just evaluate what you have. The presence of "books and tools" is no BS as the tools are cheap as he11 but cost $600+, and the books should have original date of sale as well as Service Coupon Book showing service every 3,000 miles..Owner's Manual can be replaced as a Part number but the coupon book if missing, knock $10K off the price for "unknowns"...

It's an expensive game to play, brudda!

1977 308GTB #22127
1977 308GTB #22641

#22127 exploded the engine under warranty in Canada, while #22641 sat for three years at Ron Tonkin before even hitting the road! See what I mean.....

 

Iceman, you're right - 52073 is a mid-1984 car...

The earliest September, 1985 production date I can find belongs to S/N 59891, a 1986 USA model Testarossa...

 

*eyebrows up!*

Thanks, Carbon!

You better post a pic of the VIN plate then, and examine closely the date stampings....hard to believe someone would go to the effort to defraud over one year devaluation at this late date.....a heavy crash could be reason to replace it though.....

Do you have any VIN tracking info on this car Carbon????

Where is the Service coupon booklet? It shouild be in the leather pouch with the Owner's Manual......

 

And who is selling your car? The Ferrari world is much smaller than you would imagine......


PM to Carbon, if you don't want anyone to snipe your deal...

 

For those of you who might have noticed almost an exact thread on this issue by the iceman35 - you are not seeing things.

I posted this before seeing my son posted the same identical question. Unfortunately I have had to use my son's login as I have been waiting for over a week to get my registration and login activated. I have sent 3 or 4 e-mails to get my activation resolved and it still is not fixed. Plus I can not re-register on the site as my e-mail address is "already in use". This has left me with no option but to share my son's login as I am trying to get many questions answered as I am close to making a purchase or no-purchase decision.

If a moderator is reading this, please help me address my login problem. I registered as BEisler.

Thanks

 

No worries!

Kids are always better at this stuff!

Let Carbon McCoy (of the Ferrari Market Letter) figure out if your deal is a "go or "no go"..you are a distance from the car??

Seeing the Coupon book could answer a lot of questions quickly...Original date of sale, dealer, owner, it's all in there, if it present!

 

As I said on the other thread, the cars are sometimes titled late. And the money difference between years, pales at this time as you buy based upon condition, condition, condition....but backing that up should be a full history with no "gaps", or you have a "raised alert" situation......

 

This is actually a "euro car". The Carfax report goes back to 2001 - prior to which it was supposedly in France so there is no Carfax history. The car is currently titled in Michigan (I am in Chicago).

The dealer assures me it is an "honest car" but is struggling to explain the VIN number situation. I did have a PPI done on it that pointed out a bunch of relatively minor fixes needed. Nothing in the PPI would have indicated a "major wreck repair".

I am at a loss at this point as to how to proceed.

Thanks for all the input.

 

Hmm, two views then and I have to go.....

#1 is the money fixes everything view, in that if the price is right, Euro versions can be desirable, BUT if it isn't legal with the DOT on importation......well, track use only or they COULD (long long odds) have opprtunity to seize it to crush..net gain ZERO.

#2 If it has some DOT papers and such, proceed based upon heightened awareness...after 25 years no one seems to care much (Boxers for instance) but you are not quite under that umbrella yet, you see?

I have seen games played, most recently with a 1979 car that clearly had a Non Catalyst sticker on the door jamb, when in fact 1977 was the last year. So someone had gone to the trouble to have a facsimile sticker MADE and applyed to fooll the local garage on testing criteria.

That's the kind of thing, if caught, could have HUGE repercussions..glad we had this chat..lots of good cars out there, and this could still be one, but you are wise to research and be careful!

Have a good weekend, go take it for a test drive as reward for your aggravation! A dealer cannot afford to be off base on the representation either, so that is a point in your favor......

 

BigTex,

Thanks for all the input.

Supposedly this car has a valid Michigan title and was actually leased for the past few years. It would seem to me that a leasing company would not want to have anything to do with an illegally importd car.

You would think that having it titled up to this point makes it a "valid" vehicle. But maybe that is too logical.

Unfortunately I need to decide whether or not to make a flight arrangement to go see and drive the car on Monday. Had my brainiac engineering son not drilled into the VIN issue as he did, this would be a slam dunk purchase for me (I know he is reading this).

Nothing seems to come easy latey!!!!!

 

Vostro Devotissimo, giade

 

Sadly, leasing compnies have only slightly higher scruples than used car dealers! LOL!

No this sounds legit but bear in mind, paperwork paperwork paperwork.....the only thing that makes a Euro car legal in the USA is proper DOT paperwork, and they should be so proud to have it, they wear it on a neck lanyard!

Good Luck!

If you get the heat, Track Use Only, or as the law is currently I think its called Show and Display...I have the DOT phone number at home, may have trouble getting on line there though..

It was no accident I purchased my 1977s as they turned....25 years old.

 

Ola! Mucho gusto!

That's about it, but there is a Spanish speaking section down the page!

Hasta manana!

 

You did it, amigo......Welcome!

Is this internet thing something or what???
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

So how did it look?

I'm surprised no Euro car owners joined this thread...

Enjoythemusic, where are you???

Dr. Tommy Cosgrove's is a Euro as well, IIRC..

 

iceman,
Where are you on this? I've got an Euro GTS QV. I have a fax from Ferrari saying it was built in October '82. The door plate says it was a 1984 car. I was pretty sure it was a 1983 car when I bought it. In MA, anything 1983 & earlier is exempt from the state emissions tests, so I made sure a condition of the sale was that it was titled as a 1983.

If you'd like my $0.02 on the risks associated with DOT paperwork, PM or eMAIL me with a phone # where I can call you. I can put you in touch with someone who was grey market licensed to convert Euro Ferraris for several years as well.

While an extensive service history is very desirable, My car did NOT come with one. The only service problems I've had were created by the jmoke that did the major I insisted on when I bought the car. If I were to do it again, I'd take it w/o the service & do it myself like I ended up doing in the end. (Not a general recommendation, just that jmoke shouldn't have been allowed near a Ferrari engine.)

My bottom line is that if it's a clean car, AND your state isn't anal about emissions like CA & a few others, then go for it.

 

Yeah, you would think, but there’s often surprises. As anal as states can be about proper paperwork, at one time my 308 was titled with the wrong VIN. Somebody had transposed two characters (not in the serial number, fortunately, so there was no doubt about what vehicle it referred to) and it went undiscovered for who knows how long. The fix was easy – just a lot of paperwork – but I was surprised it hadn’t been caught. Had I not noticed it when buying the car it might never have been found.

 

I am not positive, but I think 308 production had ended by 9/85 and the first 328's should have been built. However, Euro cars (at least not all) were not required to have the manufacturer door plate, so, perhaps the door plate was affixed when the car was federalized. I think this car was built in 1984 and the plate must be wrong.

Dave

 

He hasn't come back...I think he was to travel and see it today.....

 

I agree, on my '82 the '84 door plate was obviously added after the car was brought into the country. Even has the name of the importer on it.

 

I did go and see the car today. Very nice! I was favorably impressed. It has some pretty compelling paperwork from the DOT and EPA saying it is an OK car. Clearly gray market but it appears well documented. All the VIN numbers line up. As for the date of manufacture and the model year. To make a VERY LONG story short, in piecing it all together, it appears the car was built in August of 84 and was sent to France. From there a private party imported it to the US in September of 84. The DOT acknowledged and validated the importation in Sept. of 84 and sent a registration letter in Sept of 85. I have service documents showing the car was in New Jersey, Florida and now Michigan and currently has a Michigan license.

What an education this has been!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks to everyone for the input!!!