I have to say I have enjoyed watching this thread develop...learned quite a bit from it. Which is one reason I like F-Chat so much. PDG
Me too. I've learned that people sure are in a pissy mood lately. There's all kinds of hostility on FChat these days. Where's the love people? We all need a little more "item 9". Back on topic.... +20 for the 328 vs the 308. ;-)
I was trying to be funny to lighten the overly serious mood on a flippin' chat board. Come on...308 +20 = 328...that's funny, right....(silence...cricket...cricket...cricket). Tough crowd. "item 9" was a movie reference..... Image Unavailable, Please Login
That's it, you're off my Christmas card list (if I had one)! Nurburgringer, you move up a few notches for the semi-positive Karma. Let's face it...almost any Italian car will always be the hands down best damn looking car you'll ever see broke down on the side of the road...with plastic parts falling off.
personally, i really like the louvers and smaller fog lamps on the front end of the QV. i also like the door handles on the older car. but i also like the rear bumper, rims(86-7), and the more modern interior of the 328. i bought the 328. from a developmental standpoint, it is a flat out better car. visually, the differences between them is really minimum. although 328s are generally more expensive, the market is down right now. i bought my 328 considerably cheaper than what QV's were going for a couple of years back. if your going to purchase one, now is the time !!!! get the better car, the 328. good luck!!!! BTW, although i think the front end louvers are nicer on the QV, they serve a purpose and the 328 has a more efficient cooling system. i dont dislike the bigger louvers on the 328, i just think the QV's are better looking. actually the 328's remind me of the louvers on the 512BB.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, FUTUREMAN ! HE'LL BE HERE ALL WEEK! thanks for lighting, I mean lightening up this thread. And pass that over here
I heard once that there were ~100 changes made to the 328 from the 308: 50 for the driver, 50 for the mechanic. Surely there's a comprehensive list of the changes somewhere - anybody have it or is this just urban legend?
The 328 was advertised to have over 1000 changes compared to the 308. I forget the exact number but it was a huge amount.
Thats more like it. It is a very different car. While I understand and agree to some degree with those who like the look of the 308, I can tell you the overall feeling of the Ferrari industry for the 328 was really remarkable. Within weeks we knew we had a winner especially with all the problems the TR was having at the time. We had a joke about 328's that were at the dealer for service. "It has to be here for an oil change because we know nothing is broken." Both are good cars but I'll take a 328. Oops. Already did.
I have not seen a comprehensive list, but 100 sounds very low. Off the top of my head (and some of these encompass multiple numbered parts): Cooling system, brakes, wheels, hubs, suspension/shocks, engine block (bored out, longer stroke), piston heads, camshafts, ignition system, gear ratios, fuse block, window mechanisms, door latches in/out, front and rear valances (fibreglass replaces plastic bumpers), side louvres, climate control, seats, door panels, steering rack, parking brake, alternator, windscreen washer, front lighting, interior switchgear, etc. Those are changes from a 308 QV to a 328. If you compare a 328 to an early 308, the list gets vast.
yeah that's what I'm talking about. A definitive list must exist somewhere. 1000 sounds suspiciously high, and round. Is this counting every nut, bolt, washer, wire, switch etc? Of course some are big, important upgrades (engine, windows, HVAC, cooling system and brakes I guess) while others are changes of arguable need (bumpers, side louvers(is this a problem with 308s?), seats, switchgear). And then there are those that are relatively easy to retrofit on 308s (fusebox, tires, shocks, steering rack). So Rifle - what changes turned the merely great 308 into the bulletproof 328? Mainly electrical or mechical, or equally both?
It is largely a different car. 1000 is not too high. Why would anyone do a difinitive list when the factory already published parts books. Get one of each and knock yourself out. The motor is bigger and has a better wider powerband. The brakes are bigger and much better. The parking brake actually works. The heater is better. The control system for the heater is better. The cooling system by itself is worth the difference in money. The interior is very different. You have to decide if it is better but it is very different. I like it better. The entire electrical system was improved. The ignition system was improved. Later models had a redesigned suspension system and ABS brakes. The door windows on the 308 were a joke that has lasted over 30 years. They were vastly improved on 328. And take the door panel off sometime and tell me which one looks like it was built AFTER the industrial revolution. The single biggest difference to those of us in the dealers when they were new was how good the build quality was. The 308 and Boxer period was just awful. 328s were well screwed together and we didn't need to fix the cars before we could sell them and when the car came back at 1200 or so miles for its first service we didn't have a 2 page list of problems to fix. We just changed the oil and gave it back. The 308 was a good car, the QV most of all because Ferrari was just getting used to the idea that throwing a big pile of parts on 4 wheels didn't cut it anymore but the 328 really impressed us. Finally Ferrari showed us they could roll a good car off the truck and didn't require a dealer service department to turn a pile of parts into a commercially acceptable product.
I don't think that the line between the cars quality wise can be drawn that clearly. From its' inception in 1975/6 the 308 underwent many, many changes that made the last a much better car in that respect than the first. The same applies for the 328, of course, although the number of years is smaller and the chsnges fewer. Yes, some parts of the 308 are a joke. The worst to me are the window mechanisms, they do work, but man do they take their time, some of the electrical arrangements, and the positioning of the handbrake lever. That last one I'd love to upgrade to the 328 position. Until the introduction of serious rustproofing (my '82 has some, but not like an '84) there was the problem of the tin-worm, but I cannot say that the car was badly engineered or badly put together at all. That said, it is 27 years old now, and I suppose most things would have fallen off by now and/or put back properly. Then there is of course the argument that Ferrari wouldn't make the successor to the 308 a lesser car. Hindsight is always 20/20, and of course there are a lot of things that can be improved upon - now. My bias is towards the 308, just for its' purer design.
I think it's more a matter of a decade of lessons learnt. With the basic package proven over 10 years, Ferrari could likely concentrate on what was working and what wasn't and just make it better (there are parallels to the Porsche 911, over an even longer span, where the weak spots in the basic design were addressed and the cars became basically bulletproof by the 3.2 litre iteration.) The 328 benefited by inheriting a classic design that didn't need to be replaced. With the repeal of the ridiculous U.S. 5 mph bumper law, Pininfarina's hands were untied, and the weak spots of the 308 were well documented, so things came together. Happily, this was before the airbag/passive restraint laws kicked in and ruined steering wheels/seat belts forever, so there's a sweet spot from 1986-1989 where Ferrari's best modern design could have its last hurrah. The 348 was a very difficult birth, and was in some respects a lesser car, maybe because Ferrari tried to change everything with the new model -- chassis design, engine/gearbox configuration, manufacturing methods, engine management computers, cable-operated gearchange, digital climate control, etc. The saving grace for U.S. enthusiasts is that our 328 got us closer to the original Euro 308 design, which I like but which I'm not allowed to own in California.
Not sure about that, but our resident Magnumologist, Dr. Tommy, is in Alabama as well and could verify this bold claim.
I'll see him next weekend at the track. I'll ask. The last season was '88. So maybe I'm just assuming.
Last night, I had some spare time and started reading the forum archives from page 255 and read a thread regarding Magnum cars, there were something like 4/5 different 308s in the series, with the last one was 308 QV not a 328...If the Magnum PI lasted couple years longer I bet he would drive a 328.
