308 vs 328

We've just talked about a few days ago:

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=309288

 

This seems to be a constant debate here.
But since you've asked such specific q's, I don't mind throwing another opinion.
Keep in mind that's all they are, my opinion.

 

Indeed, there have been more and more debates between 308 vs 328, the look and feel of GTB vs. GTS is also important. They are different cars and most of the comments from their owners are accurate. As their prices are still reasonable, get both, if you can. I did and I am happy about it.
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You won't find that much difference between a 328 and a 308 QV, but an early carbed 308 and a 328 is quite different. The 328 is much more refined and, in comparison, almost feels more like a GT car than a sports car. That being said, if you want a GTS, you will not be able to find an early, hotter-cammed 308, unless you were to pick up a Euro GTS. Starting in 1978, the U.S. 308 GTS cars had mellower cams but, again, the Euro car (which is what one should always strive for in any of the 308/328 variants) did not.

The U.S. version of any 308/328 is going to be heavier, have less HP, and in the case of the 308s, likley have grotesque battering ram bumpers courtesy of idiotic U.S. bumper laws back in the day. Along with the bumpers, the U.S. cars also have extra bracing for said idiotic bumpers, steel bars in the doors and weigh about 250-300 pounds more than their Euro counterparts. Accordingly, the Euro 308s, with their smaller bumpers, lack of smog crap, and higher compression engines, willl look much better, handle and brake better, go faster and are, in essence, is how Ferrari intended the cars to be before Uncle Sam got his dumbsh*t hands on them. What is true for the 308 models is essentially true for the 328s, as well, though, with the color coded 328 bumpers, that particular artistic guffaw is not quite as blatant.

Some folks on this site tend to downplay the weight savings as not being that substantial between U.S. and Euro cars but I assure you it is; I have driven Euro QVs and U.S. QVs and own a 308 dry sump Euro 308, as well as a U.S. 328 and the U.S. variants feel absolutely porky in comparison.

Though flat out speed in any of these models is not going to be breathtaking, you want the most performance and aesthetic bang for your buck, and the Euro cars will definitely give you that PROVIDED you live in a state with more lenient smog laws.

As most everyone here would tell you...drive a few different models before you make your decision ;-)

 

p.s. Just noticed you have owned a number of more recent F-cars. in that case, ALL of the 308/328 variants are going to feel quite raw by comparison.

 

- 328 for better driveability, power, build quality and reliability; for looks, it's up to you, but I like the European 308 GTS, followed by the 328 GTS. Euro vs US makes a big difference on the 308, not so much on the 328 (although side impact protection on US cars is something you might want if you actually drive the car).
- 328 has no major problem areas; 308s have weak electronics, weak windows, cooling problems with the later cars, rust problems with the earlier cars. They all get the occasional oil leak at the cam seals, but it's nothing that a few thousand bucks won't take care of. If you plan to drive it in the rain, the GTB is more practical: targa tops aren't usually all that watertight.
- Not bad, although trim parts can be very hard to find and expensive. 328 vent control switches and fog lights are essentially unavailable. Stuff like window trim can run hundreds of bucks for a piece of rubber. Basic service parts are easy and not stupidly expensive.
- Value: They're all cheap. The "investment" cars would be the '89 328 GTS in red and the fibreglass 308 in red. At this point you could probably get the best 328 in the world for $70K; a good driver in the $50K range, and a beater in the $30K-$40K range.
- Years: 328 I like the '87 and early '88 before they went to the unattractive convex wheels, but there are no "bad" years. For 308s, the '76 fibreglass cars are very desirable as collectibles, and the '84-'85 QVs were the initial cars with rustproofing and seem more debugged. The cheap years are '78-'83, which includes the start of cat converters, the initial injected cars and early QVs where Ferrari struggled with smog controls.
- Options: Very few. The luggage is nice, but useless. Metallic paint is scarce as everyone bought red ones. On the 308, the optional larger wheels are nice. What I would look for, instead of options, is a car that has not had old alarm installed, or old phone system, or been drilled out for speakers, amplifiers, etc.

Good luck!

 

I've had three of each and 308s are much needier. Overall, the build quality and design of 328s is a vry significant improvement over all 308s, including QVs. They are all cool cars however. I don't think model year matters much on 328s. For 308s 84-85 are the best built but the 76-77 pre cat cars are the coolest.

Dave

 

I don't take exception with any of the previous posters, but will add that after my 330 2+2 was totaled in a front-end collison, somehow those big, heavy U.S. spec bumpers on my GTS seem quite reassuring.

 

The issues with the 355s have been discussed plenty here as well, just in the 348/355 forum. The sound that car makes is amazing, but with one thing going wrong it can be majorly expensive. So, let your budget determine that. The same rule is going to hold beteen the 355 and the 355 Fiorano. The 3X8 is going to be less expensive over the long haul as far as maintenance generally speaking, but they are all likely to be a while before any real appreciation in value.



PDG

 

My opinion is that the long term desirability of the 355 will be very low. The potential for a $10K or $15K service bill was bad when 355s were worth $90K. Now that they're closing in on $50K, the pool of buyers willing to smile and pay those bills is getting smaller. And, the cars are getting older so will need $$$ to refurbish.

In addition, the F1 gearbox in the 355 is outdated, and the convertible tops are complicated and expensive to repair.

I don't think 328s will ever be uber-collectibles like the the 246 or Daytona --the classic era for Ferraris (and Porsches) probably ended around 1973/4. But they are simple enough cars that they should continue to sought over time as throwback cars.

IMHO, they clash with the lithe lines of the car and make it look "fat".

The original design -- an all-time classic -- was drawn from the Ferrari 512 race cars, I believe, and immortalized on the Daytona.

If you see both side by side, I think you'll appreciate the classic concave wheels.

My two lira...

 

Concave vs. convex is a personal taste, but the 89 carries a price premium over pre-88. I like convex, I am not sure if it gives more room for the ABS but it stands out from the older ones.

 

Same here, I prefer the later convex wheels.

 

Weren't the convex wheels necessary for the suspension change, not just the ABS? That's the way I recall the issue. When I was doing the research into buying a 328 I remember reading that the suspension change in mid '88 required the different wheels. The suspension change supposedly was a notable improvement for the car handling over the earlier version though I don't remember what, exactly was changed.

 

Yes, the wheels were changed to accomodate the updated suspension that was introduced with the 88.5s. The 89s retained the convex wheels and the suspension change and ABS became standard on the 89s. I've heard ABS was optional on Euro 328s, but I've never seen a Euro 88 that had ABS.

 

The early wheels look like more traditional Ferrari alloys, as seen on some Daytonas, Boxers, 308s and some race cars. I initially liked and prefered the looks of the concave wheels, but I'm so used to the convex that I don't give it much thought. I would rather have some of the updates that go with a car wearing convex wheels such as the suspension. In the end I wouldn't worry so much about the wheels, buy the best overall car you can find in terms of condition and maintenance.

 

The deeper dish of the concave rim lends itself to a more aggressive stance.

Kinda like the deep dish of the Countach rim in comparison. Of course, not as extreme.

It's all subjective, and all good.
In this version of the endless debate, the only opinion that counts is PChop's.
Btw, I love that handle!

 

308gts79,
I love that pic. The neighbors must hate you

With respect.
My experience was much different, I felt the Euro QV's performance was closer to the GTSi than the 328, however there are many variables involved such as age, condition, possibility of federalization and so on. I don't know if the Euro car I am using of as an example was federalized. But it was excellent condition, utd, lo mile, no cat, and enthusiast owned. However, it's only one car.



I would never disagree with your facts Wazie as they are accurate and without debate. But I think it makes for better talk than anything else.
there are a few reasons why I think it's an overrated argument and you hit on the first reason why,

At these power levels it only makes the car not as slow or only marginally quicker. Comparing to other cars, it does not add to the drivers experience at all.

JSA330 and Bullfighter hit on another issue, the safety specs could mean the difference between you and/or a loved one walking away from an accident and not being able to.

Many grey market cars were federalized and the performance and reliability is WORSE!

In many states, emissions is no longer a factor and your free to uncork your pre-86 Ferrari anyway.

Troubleshooting, Parts, and availability can be more difficult.

All of the overblown hype surrounding the Euro car lends itself to certain disappointment with the reality of it.

And to a lesser extent, if you have the courage or access to enjoy these cars at high speeds, the added weight is actually a benefit, not a detriment. -even at highway speeds, 50-100mph

I'm not saying there is a right or wrong answer here. Nor am I trying to one up or argue with anyone. Or dis anyone with a Euro model. Its a personal choice. But there are cons as well as pros and nobody with a US spec car has any less of a Ferrari.
It's another reason why I prefer the 328 -Euro v. US just isn't a factor.

 

1988 Euro with ABS.

Don't know how many there are in North America but I'm the proud owner of one........and a GTB to boot!

 

When I made the comment that there is not much difference between a 328 and 308 QV, I was referring to overall performance/feel, not just speed. They do feel quite similar perfomance-wise, though obviously the 328 does have better brakes. Likewise, in comparing an early carb car to either a 308QV or 328, there is a significant difference in overall driving feel, the latter being much more raw than the 328, the QV, perhaps, being somewhere in between the two.

As far as the Euro cars are concerned...you must have driven a crappy-perfoming Euro QV, or one, as you allude to, that had been Federalized to the point of even worse performance. While I undersatand and respect your position and thank you for your supportive comments, I will never again own a U.S. 308 or 328 variant as opposed to a true Euro car. Also, and I guess that I may be in the minority here, but I could absolutely care less about side impact beams or bigger bumpers for protection; if one is unlucky enough to get in a "serious" accident in one of these cars whether it be a U.S. version or a Euro version...good luck.

The other element for consideration pursuant to either a 308 QV or 328 vs an early carb and, again, and I hate to bring it up, a Euro carb car, is that the throttle response on a well-tuned carb car just blows that mushy Bosch FI into the weeds. My 308 Eruo has a knife-edged throttle response; my perfectly-tuned U.S. 328 feels like a bag of wet sand in comparison.

So...as many point out here, there really is no one correct answer for any of this; it really is whatever floats your boat. My experience has been that the Euro cars look better, drive better and feel more alive and unencumbered than their U.S. counterparts and, again, for this reason, I will never again have a U.S. 308/328 in my "stable".

 

10 more HP and around 70 lbs of weight advantage (Euro 328 vs US 328) is impossible to feel in the real world. The power/weight difference would produce, at best, a .3 second difference in the 1/4 mile time and there is no way in heck that this could be "felt" by the operator. For all practical purposes, the 328s are the same performance-wise in Euro or US spec. Even on the track the difference in the weight of the drivers could determine which car would end up in front.

 

Maybe in "328Land" but I guarantee you my Euro 308 is WAY lighter than my U.S. 328. It is extremely obvious; my guess is 200-300 pounds lighter but I am going to have the car weighed the next time I have it in for service. And it isn't just me...everyone who has driven both of my cars makes the exact same comment.

 

As another data point, I would welcome anyone to compare my euro QV with a 328 and I'll bet it is very close. Put another way, I was able to stay right on the bumper of a 928S4 from a dead stop to...well enough to be certain the cars were a dead heat. That's a 300hp Porsche that weighs about 3400lbs. I've driven a number of US cars and can say for certain that the euro has a lot more get-up-and-go, better throttle response and better acceleration. Come drive it!

 

There ya go.