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308 Water Pump "Big" bearings vs. "Standard" bearings

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by dave80gtsi, Dec 24, 2003.

  1. dave80gtsi

    dave80gtsi Formula 3
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    Dave Meredith
    Does anyone have the actual outside diameter measurements of the standard water pump bearings, and the upgrade "Big" bearings O.D.?

    Thanks - DM in Ohio
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    My notes have the "small" 308 WP bearing as 15mm ID x 35 mm OD x 14 mm wide (e.g., SKF 62202-2RS1 basic size) and the "large" 308 WP bearing as 15mm ID x 42mm OD x 13mm wide (e.g., SKF 6302-2RS1 basic size) -- but watch out for the rest of the PN gobbly-gook (internal clearance, lube type/fill, etc.)
     
  3. dave80gtsi

    dave80gtsi Formula 3
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    Further on the above:

    I have a 1978 308 GTS factory parts catalog which shows these water pump bearings to be no. 103877, which I am assuming is the 'standard' size bearing. However, my 1980 GTSi factory parts catalog shows this same bearing as part no. 116159. This, I believe, is the so-called 'big' bearing. These numbers are also confirmed in "Carl's" rebuild article.

    Upon disassembly of my 80 GTSi, the bearings measure approximately 42 mm in diameter.

    Folklore seems to have it that the entire 2V 308 line had the 103877 small bearing, and that the upgrade to the larger bearing occurred with the introduction of the QV. However, based upon my preliminary investigation as discussed above, I now believe that this upgrade to the large bearing actually occurred between 1978 and 1980, perhaps coinciding with the changeover from carbs to injection.

    So ... back to my original question - Can anyone confirm the O.D. of these different bearings? Is 42 mm indeed the 'large' bearing variation no. 116159?

    Thanks and Cheers - DM, still in Ohio
     
  4. ria

    ria Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
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    phill
    steve is corect i am in the prosses of rebulding my water pump and the bearing size for the big water pump is 6302-2rs one of the bearings on my was complitly shot i did take the new bearings apart clean them and put the mobil 1 synthetic grease for longer life. GT CAR PARTS do have all the seals. the bearings i got them in town at $ 8.00 for (2).
     
  5. ria

    ria Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
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    phill
    the ID 15MM- OD 42MM this is for the big bearing water pump.
     
  6. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    May 29, 2001
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    Hugh G. Rection
    According to Carl Jone's tech tips on the 308GTB register, there were four water pumps used on the 308/328. The last two were the large bearing and were used begining with the 328. The one your are speaking of (he claims) the main difference is an improved seal, to prevent "weeping". I don't know if his information is "definitive" , but is another data point.....
     
  7. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
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    May 5, 2001
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    Verell Boaen
    Carl Jones is wrong.
    The 42mm (p/n 116159 ) 'large bearings' were introduced into production somewhere after '79 & by '80. I researched this pretty extensively using all of the FPCs I could lay my hands on & posted the results in the following thread along with Ferrari P/Ns for the bearings & seals for the various wp varients:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/256120/184361.html

    You'll see that I didn't have an '80 FPC, so the earliest I could establish the large bearings were used was in the '81 FPC.

    If you're considering rebuilding your WP, you'll find the links to tips & rebuild procedures in my post in the following thread to be comprehensive:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2285&highlight=water+pump+rebuild

    (I'd have re-posted it here, but the links don't cut & paste).
     
  8. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Rookie
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    Feb 24, 2002
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    Friends,

    Isn't the 62202-2RS1 the same one in the distributor also?
     
  9. 2dinos

    2dinos Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2007
    2,350
    And I think I recall the same as clutch pilot bearing.
     
  10. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Rookie
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  11. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Brian Crall
    There were more than 4 water pump designs.

    All small bearing pumps should be scrapped. No reason to use one.

    All early large bearing pumps should be scrapped. No good seal design can be used in them.

    Only one of the latter designs that can be converted to a single piece seal are worth using unless you really like break downs.
     
  12. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Rookie
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    Brian is there anyway to tell if you have one of the latter versions that you’re talking about ?
     

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