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308 Weight Loss

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by JTranfield, Jan 22, 2004.

  1. JTranfield

    JTranfield Formula Junior

    Dec 29, 2003
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    I have a 77 308, is it worth going to Euro bumpers for weight loss as well as looks? Anyone recomend a supplier of quality pieces?
    On the same subject any other ideas that will not involve chopping the car to pieces, I like the look of lightweight brakes. Thanks for any input.
    Jon
     
  2. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    Well you could get a hole saw kit and drill the frame!

    Seriously, the Euro bumpers are fibreglass and DO save a lot of weight over US version, but DON'T meet crash standards and WON'T protect your $4,000.00 one piece front end clip. So think about safety and body protection, IMO.

    A Houston FCA member has some on his car, I could ask where he purchased them.
     
  3. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    The Brembo upgrade for our cars is about $2,500.

    Drilled or slotted discs and stainless lines. Pretty nice.

    Welcome aboard Fchat, BTW.
     
  4. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    The best weight savings I have found so far is a tall, thin girlfriend, so I traded my wife for one of those! ;)
     
  5. JTranfield

    JTranfield Formula Junior

    Dec 29, 2003
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    Well I am not really concerned about the protection level so Euros sound a good idea. The brakes sounf good which are better Brembo or Tarox etc?
    Both the girlfriend and wife are also pretty thin, maybe I should only let one in the car at a time?
    Thanks for the welcome.
     
  6. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    LOL you'll do well here, I think :)

    Brembo or a custom job (Atlantaman, aka Charles) seems to be the way to go... Never heard of a Tarox job on a 308 anyway.

    --Mike
     
  7. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    That, or go for the three seat 365 in the Vintage section!
     
  8. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
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    I fitted euros on my 77. Weight difference is substantial (I'd guess 50 or 60 lbs each end) and has as large an impact on the polar MoI as anything else. I recommend it.

    I bought mine from Peter Sweeney (USER581 on eBay). You might try him. I'd expect Rutlands/Marenello or Butch Hooper to have them too.
    HTH
    Philip
     
  9. james patterson

    james patterson Formula Junior
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    Dec 8, 2003
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    GT Car Parts 623-780-2200, They did at one time have reproductions that where quite nice and reasonable priced.
     
  10. joeyy

    joeyy Karting

    Nov 11, 2003
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    you can put a aluminum facebar behind the euro for some added protection it is not the strongest but will help a little and will not add much weight.
     
  11. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Dec 26, 2001
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    bumpers for sure and loose the full size spare in exchange for a mini like the euro cars. Something Im doing during the restoration is tossing alot of insulation that the smog equipment required that the euro cars never came with. The front engine firewall aluminum cruddy looking panel is one thing as well as the lumpy one behind the engine. I saved around 12 lbs with those two pieces alone, add euro bumpers and a small light weight spare and you shed alot of weight. Beware of a higher front end with less weight. Ive seen it happen, it rides higher.
     
  12. gary308gtb

    gary308gtb Rookie

    Oct 9, 2003
    41
    About replacing the US bumpers with Euro bumpers, Will the Euro bumpers fit my 78 308 GTB Us Version ? Same connectors ?

    I've been dying to order the Euro bumpers. Can anyone tell my the price of each ? Thank you
     
  13. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    I would imagine the pistons behind the bumpers should be removed as well, and something fabricated to replace them. I would assume they are quite heavy as well, and quite useless with the Euro bumpers. More weight savings? Ditch the spare tire in front, and the tool kit and jack in back. Carry a couple of cans of tire sealant crap like the 348/355/360.
     
  14. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
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    They are a bolt on. I did same on my 77. Didn't need to do anything with the shocks, although you could do those too to save more weight.

    I bought mine a couple of years ago on eBay, paid $700 IIRC, for the pair. My guess is the range is $500 - 1000 depending on condition.

    Paul, I also did the Euro spare ($250 incl tire). Manual indicates it is limited to about 90 mph! Not sure about all that old rubber though. (Add a can of Fix a Flat too).

    As long as you tighten the a-arms up when the car has weight on it, it'll be fine. Mine does not ride high.

    Incidentally, I bought a set of aluminum cam pulleys from GT Parts. Fabulous quality. Even surprised the FoX dealer.

    HTH
    Philip
     
  15. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    One point on the suspension bushings philip. The bushing is designed to be neutral at rest, not under tension to hold the cars suspension compressed slightly. I can see why it helps but I would think the bushing life is out the window under those conditions especially when the bond between the sleeve and the rubber tears after living under load forever. It would then return to the higher unloaded position.
    I would change the spring length, not a 5 minute job but easier than replacing bushings and then you can make it lower than stock while you are at it.
    Paul.
     
  16. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    The muffler's pretty heavy too, that a good place the sve some weight.
     
  17. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    One other area most 308 owners will never have the displeasure of digging around in is under the trunk subfloor. The US spec cars have a large fibreglass panel mounted under the carpet which contributes to the higher floor than the euros. There is more innerstructure (that adds additional weight) as well for the rear bumper shocks that is packed with insulation. The problem is in the engine compartment rear fire wall, you can see the sheet metal boxed sections at the trunk floor. They connect to the sheet metal boxed section under the trunk that looks like a rear frame rail. Unfortunately they packed them with insulation as well but they are open in the engine area and allow water to enter and soak the insulation. Mmmm, metal and wet insulation adds up to ROT! It also adds weight. Im lowering the trunk floor like a euro, tossing the insulation and removing the rotten boxed rails under the car that house the real chassis frame tubes. the euro cars have none of this crap and it all adds weight. My point is you can save weight by removing all of the rust causing insulation, replace it with something more high tech and get more trunk space.
     
  18. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #18 Newman, Jan 22, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  19. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
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    Great pics and a good education.

    I had not meant to imply I had a couple of guys hanging from the car to load the suspension before I tightened up the bushings! No, just the car's own weight. It doesn't ride high.

    Separately, i have just received uprated (and lowered) springs from QV London and a more aggressive set of (track) alignment recommendations so it's all apart and new chassis forks are being fab'd so that I can achieve a more negative camber on the front and a bit more on the rear. I have all the bits back to put the fronts together and am planning the job for this weekend. Hopefully I'll have the back stuff too. Oh, and a new (thicker) adj ARB for the front. Then on to the next project (44s, more anon).
     
  20. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    great thread guys!
     
  21. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3
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    This?
     
  22. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Yes isnt that nice how they rot like that? Even if the car is clean it will still rot there depending on how much rain or car washing it sees. If you wash your engine, water will enter the rear rails. I noticed you have the cooling duct from the inboard side of the rear inner fenders. My late 79 doesnt have them but the 80's do when they went FI to add even more cooling to the exhaust area. Just more weight. By the way, I weighed my US bumpers last night. The front is 42lbs and the rear 38lbs without lights or shocks. The shocks weigh about 2lbs each.
     
  23. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    On the off chance someone is interested, ferrari UK has the trunk pan in stock which is part of the boxed rail sections for about 50GBP. I was going to replace mine but the euro valance combined with lowering the trunk floor means I dont need it.
     
  24. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3
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    How did you lower your trunk floor? Just remove all this rusty box sections, the original floor and rivet a sheet of aluminium on the bottom off the chassis? Or weld a sheet metal floor to the chassis? Do you have pictures? Couldn't find an original floor on the Ferrari UK parts catalog. I'm thinking of a clean and neat solution for my trunk as it is a mess now. I don't have cats anymore and it looks like such a waste off space between the exhaust and the trunk floor.
    BTW, the cooling ducts are aluminium and not that heavy, but I removed them anyway.
     
  25. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Bert, the raised section of trunk floor between the bumper shocks is not there on a euro car. There is a panel that attaches to both rear frame tubes and goes straight across above the muffler then they support it in the center with a fore and aft brace. You would have to add a cross brace at the front of the trunk from frame tube to tube for the center brace to attach to . You have to be carefull to not place it too far forward because the early euro cars had a different rear header shape that clears the lower trunk. A US header would most likely hit the trunk floor on a euro car. Im only talking a setback of about an inch on the cross brace then you eliminate all of the shock structure from the trunk. The floor would then be flat right across. If you go the euro valance like mine, then you gain deeper wells on either side of the trunk floor as well.
     

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