Note; The 12+ wire from the fuse panel is white/black BN and jumps (2) terminals on the switch. The black wire N also jumps two wires on the switch but I consider it a ground (earth) according to industry standard. That leaves the two open terninals to hook the two yellow G "shunts" to. There are only 6 contacts in each switch laid out in strips of 3 each. The two strips of three ARE NOT cross linked. As you can see in my pictures, sort of, the positioning in the housing. You have two grouped together at one end and the other by itself at the other. I was hoping the two grouped together would be making contact when the switch was in neutral but they DO NOT until the rocker is pushed. Besides, if they did make contact with the switch in neutral they wouldn't be useable in the other positions in the car. The switch needs to be cross linked internally at the "common" terminals when it is in neutral and it is not. I still think I need a different switch. The book shows identical layouts and hook ups though.
SUCCESS!!!!!!!. Everything checks out as Steve (91TR) stated. Power everywhere!!!! First I have to say that YES there are two terminals on each side of the switch that have continuity so the yellow shunts are indeed hot when they leave the drivers side switch. When I checked continuity the first time I had the range set so high it didn't read any resistance hence I thought no connection. DOOOOOHHH!!!! So what was the problem??? The ground wire between the passenger switch and the chassis has failed. I tested the passenger switch with my own ground wire installed and it works just fine. FAST TOO! Correct switch hookup diagrams are being drawn up right now. FILM AT 11:00
I kind of wondered about that. I thought I heard somewhere though that some of the earlier years had come without them. You learn something new everyday! Thanks for the info!! Glad to hear you got them working!! I hate electrical problems for exactly this reason. You think you have everything all sorted out and it's one little wire causing the whole problem!
Birdman, Special thanks to you for suggesting I check the switch terminals with an ohm meter. That was the key to configuring everything. It all just fell into place. Steve, Thanks for the info on what should be hot where and when. The key to understanding this system is the fact that the ENTIRE SYSTEM IS HOT ALL THE TIME and the switches are used to provide polarity to the motors by directing which circuits would act as grounds!!!!! SIMPLE!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA. Why didn't somebody suggest that in the first place! Enclosed are diagrams of all three switch hookups. This is what works on my car and most closely resembles the switch schematics in my book. Thank you all profoundly for your help! Now I have to put this bugger all back together. UUUGGGGHHHH! In each case you will see that the B & C terminals are the power input terminals and the A & D terminals are the "output" terminals. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Glad you got it sorted out and well done -- good switch + wire diagrams too. One minor point is that on the schematic the BN wires are used as the +12V source for the driver's (LH) window switch and the AN wires are used the +12V source for the passenger (RH) window switch on the driver's side. Functionally it doesn't matter since the two power paths are identical, but fuse #8 (AN) is labeled for the "R.H. window motor" and fuse #9 (BN) "L.H. window motor" so that keeps the fuse labeling straight.
Thats what my book says too. The colors are switched at both ends so at least the correct fuse is powering the correct window. I guess I should have corrected that before I posted those schematics. Must have been that new guy Guido Thanks again
Dave and Birdman, Thanks for the insight, I will also check the ground as well. I cannot tell you all how much this type of help has made Ferrari ownership even more fun than i thought it might be. best, chris
Update on the failed ground on my passenger door switch. I assumed the switch grounded back through the bundle into the cabin of the car. I was all set to thread a new wire through the door and door jam when I found that the ground wire for the switch didn't go through there. The black wire that did go through was a different gauge and was for the little red door light. The ground wire for the switch is attached to a stud on the INSIDE of the lower, forward part of the door just ahead of the speaker hole. The nut was finger tight. I pulled it off and polished the stud and wire terminal then sandwiched the terminal between two washers and secured the nut with blue lock tight. Topped off with a coat of De-ox. What a trip...............................................................
So, now that I have the windows fixed I've pulled all of the switches, door panels and forward console, passenger foot well and A/C ducting to install the new CD player. Masochism is alive and well.
Spasso, Good idea making diagrams of the switches. This thread will save some poor FChatter in the future many hours of head scratching. Glad you got it all fixed. Birdman
My pleasure! I have seen the same done by others here concerning other problems and systems, picking up where the WSM or owners manual left off. Guys like Russ Turner(SNJ5) doing an extensive, blow by blow account of converting his Mondial from CIS to Weber carbs, with DYNO. Or the picture account of changing suspension bushings in the front of a 308, grinding the welds, where to get the new bushings and HOW TO SAVE MONEY! It's the least I could do considering all of the benefits I have gotten from all of the "experts" on this site. I can't imagine trying to tackle these cars without the benefit of the www. Can you imagine how hard it would be to come by the information and parts? On another note; The factory really did install the two power supply wires for the drivers side switches in opposite wire bundles. They are to the correct fuses for the correct switches but the wrong color! They are integral to the "other" bundles from one end to the other. Somebody new to the job I imagine or too much wine and cheese at lunch. DJ
GREAT THREAD! we need a sticky archive for the common super techy stuff like this! glad to see you got the window issue fixed Spasso. Birdman's help in these threads has been much appriciated as well. cheers! Michael
Since the hard drive failure on the site I notice the schematics are gone. Here they are again. Image Unavailable, Please Login
bump so i can find this...... the gt4 needs a window switch still. 4 post. trying not to pay $95.00 for one. its different from the 308gtb/gts.
Ok, gang, I saw it here somewhere, but just can't seem to get back there---Can someone direct me to the thread which illustrates (It even had photos) where the stupid round multi-pin connector thingy is located and how to get at it? cheers, Alex
My 1977 308 GTB boxer window electrics are failing. Any suggestions welcome. The driver's side on these cars has two switches, the one for the passenger window never worked. The one for the driver's window did, most of the time. But sometimes it would not, however after a short rest of even a few seconds, a few minutes or overnight, it would work again. A few months ago it completely stopped working. I note, the passenger's side has one switch and it works well. I tried a quick fix - switching the two switches on the drivers side but, that didn't work. I may try switching the passenger's side switch with the driver's side one for the driver's window, but have my doubts. A mechanic said these systems have circuit breakers and maybe that explained why after not working, after a "rest" they would work again. So my question is - what would you think I should do next? Are new switches a good idea or is the problem a bit more complex; what else might be the culprit? Thanks for any advice you might have to offer!
Take a look at some of the many window threads in the 308 section - from your description the problem could be anything from the mechanism being seized to poor earth in the doors - new switches might help as they do give up eventually but that is not necessarily the cure Also http://www.birdman308.com/service/windowservice/index.html
On my '79 everything worked OK. Slow but OK. I put in a "Birdman" fuse panel replacement which was a very nice pieces of equipment, and helped everything a bunch! I also discovered there is NO ground wire from the doors to the chassis. Ferrari used the door hinges for the ground! When I added a ground wire from each motor to the chassis (running it with all the wires through the door to the body) Woo Hoo! And then when I cleaned and re greased the motor/winder units it really worked well. And yes, the Ferrari grease was like concrete. FWIW Don B.
Thanks guys. I appreciate the suggestions very much. I will give it my best using the helpful threads and advice, possibly start with obvious-easy such as the grounding. Thanks to Spasso and Birdman whose previous posts are brought forward to me. Good feeling that folks help out like this. Neil
