308 with mileage, need advice

Which version 308?

 

Nothing different in a ppi for a 20k car than a 100k car. If it checks out, go for it. As with all cars this age, look at things like suspension upkeep history. Although the drivetrains are sometimes well maintained, stuff like suspension bushings, shocks, and ball joints are often overlooked. Any car that has not had this done in the past 10-15 years should really look into having it done. As for the engine, these things can easily go 100k miles. If the engine is original, remember it is still running old gaskets and old valve stem seals which inherently allow some oil to get through. The factory manuals are liberal in what normal oil usage should be (1L per 600 miles), but if the engine has had the heads off or been rebuilt, it should be burning almost zero oil due to modern seals etc being installed. People on this forum have seen 25k miles engines apart for some reason or other, and 100k engines apart for some reason. There doesn't seem to be any golden rule regarding what always happens and what doesn't happen. Good luck and keep us informed!

 

If compression and leak down are good you can have peace of mind. All the other things mentioned above are equally as important if you don't want to put repair money into it immediately.

 

On a properly maintained 308, 70K is nothing.

These cars are not made of rice paper. I bought mine with 57K in 1997. It has 105K now and is in MUCH better shape than most all of those 30K cars (which, by the way, don't really have 30K)

 

Don't worry about 70k miles, that just means that it is almost broken in. (that's less than 3k miles/year)
Just be sure it has complete records and has been well taken care of, no rust etc.

 

Ha! Very well said!

 

I think one of the important factors is wether or not you are willing to work on it yourself or not. If you don't mind replacing bushings/hoses/gaskets etc as needed and the car is clean at this point, nice interior and the engine is not a heap of dried up gunk then you should be fine. It's a hobby, enjoy!

Helmut

 

Just turned 71k this fall on my 85 QV, still solid, still a blast, and much better to use and enjoy than sit and deteriorate.

 

Where is the car? Who is selling?

 

Suspension bushings, ball joints and shocks are small change. You want to look for the big things that can really cost.

The 82s didn't have rust protection. Have someone that really knows 308s look at all the areas rust usually pops up.

I don't have a spyder, but i have had convertibles and you should look for areas that might have been effected by water leaks.

If the fuel, coolant hoses and injectin lines are 28 years old, (that is, no doccumentation of their being changed), plan on it.

Perhaps the biggest issue is the leakdown and compression testing, apparently, there were issues with cylinder liners and oil consumption in the 80-82, (not real sure of the years).

I would take all of the receipts for maintenance to the guy doing the PPI. Many times, during survice, things are written on the receipt about what the mechanic at the time is seeing coming down the road. Look for repeat problems, electric gremlins.

Will the car smog??? Is this an issue in your state?? do all f the electrics work, the ac???

More obvious stuff, oil leaks, play in the suspension, interior condition, and the most frequently asked question, (for which i would like to see real doccumentation) - When Were The Belts Changed, how about bearings and seals???

I wouldn't be afraid of a 70-100 k mile car if it were sound. Take the maintenance receipts and the ppi results and talk to the mechanic about a plan and cost for getting the car right. You can't necessarily expect the seller to put the car in 100 point condition, but it is good to know what you are going to be looking at going down the road.

If you are going t be doing the mechanical work yourself, it gives you a really nice set of projects to enjoy

hth,
chris

 

I'll take a 70k mile 2V(GTSi) any day over a 20K mile one. Most of the problems talked about here are age related, not mileage: coolant hoses, fuel hoses, brake hoses, rust(sometimes), even suppension(dry rot). Also, some of these 2V engines had problems. One with 70K would most like have these issues worked out. Plus, since most people believe a 70K mile 308 (especially a 2V) is tired, the selling price will be reduced.

 

Ditto all of the above. After 27 years, it's about condition not # of miles. That said, with 70,000 miles you should be able to negotiate a decent discount on the price. For whatever reason, higher mileage 308s (say, 60,000+ miles) tend to sell at a fair discount over lesser mileage (say, 30,000 miles) cars, although, I think half of those 30,000 mile cars are actually 60,000 mile cars with the OD rolled back. I'd seen a lot of 30,000 mile cars that have completely worn out interiors, pedals, suspensions, etc.

You gonna love your '82 gtsi - that's what I have in the garage and it's a lot of fun!

 

I'm not sure of your point. Pay more for a 308 with 30K miles, which may have it's odometer turned back. For the zillionth time, these cars are about condition not miles on an odometer.

 

+1 When I bought my car it has 67K miles and let me tell you, it looks new and runs like new compare the other low mileage (40k, 35K miles) I have driven. The PO just had its 60K miles service by FofSF just right before I bought it and gave 6 pages of service record from the dealership. It's been almost 5 years now and has almost 80K miles and my 308 still runs like a champ

 

87k miles on mine and it's been one of the more reliable classic cars I've owned. They key is to look for evidence of regular recent use.

 

My point is exactly as indicated. I said, it's all about condition, not number of miles.

I also indicated that the number of miles on this particular car could probably be used to diplomatically negotiate a discount, as, the market in general (not me or you or necessarily anyone on this thread) seems to penalize the higher mileage 308s.

Was I somehow not clear?

 

Caution, as high mileage 308s typically need new muffler bearings, the cross-drilled oil lines replaced, as well as the lug nuts rotated. Blinker fluid needs to be flushed and the Finnegan pin machined.

Use of an engine oil bypass hose will show on the ppi but a smoke replacement kit for the fuse panel and caliper re-greasing depends on condition but is advised as well as a new stalk belt (costly). Of course if lead paint was used as a primer on the car...well best pass it up.

 

IMHO, it depends on what you are personally trying to do and what you want at the end...

A 70k car that has had all the recent and needed parts and services may be superior to a 30k car that is just sitting for the past 10 years or whatever. But the 30k car will need a lot less in the first place - probably nothing whatever with the interior, for example - and since all the parts for either cost the same, at the end you have a car that is worth a lot more BECAUSE of the reduced mileage. And the fact is that an engine on a car you buy with 70k miles will be worn out 40k miles sooner than an engine on a car you buy with with 30k miles.

Of course, this may not matter at all based on the mileage that it typically put on these cars and, if you are looking to buy a car and never resell it; this is not an issue at all and it may be more "efficient" money-wise to buy the higher mileage car since you will have less in it to start with and you can do the work as you go. But the reality is that a car with 30k miles is worth a lot more than the same car with 70k miles.

 

Okay I will ask you a question. Which car below do you feel represents a better buy for the same 34K. Both cars are the same color combo and the interiors and exteriors are in the identical condition. Both services are 6 months old.

A) 28K mile 85QV which has had a recent 30K major service - belts and bearings, belts, all fluids, valve adjustment, check ignition components.

B) 85 308QV with 70K which has had a 60K major service (everything as 30K car) but this owner has had the rotors, caps and wires replaced, replaced all the suspension bushings, new shocks, replcaed the boots and repacked the half shafts, changed the AC to 134, all wheel bearings replaced, steering rack rebuilt, radiator refurbished and all hoses both coolent and fuel replace in the entire car.

You are saying the 30K car is worth more. I'm saying it really is trully about condition as parts and service are extreamly expensive and on a 30 years old 308 lots of stuff needs to be done regardless of mileage.

 

I think that if the engine has not been totally rebuilt, the 70K car, even with the refreshening you mention, is still going to be less. All the buyer will see is a 70K mile car that is, in his mind, going to be needing an engine rebuild soon. On the other hand, a 70K car, with all that you say has been done plus a competent engine rebuild, should bring more than the 30K car. Case in point, I think even if Newman's car originally had 200K miles, it still would have sold for what it sold for.

 

Good post. But the "problem" with higher mileage cars is that, while suspension bushings won't bankrupt you, there is a considerable amount of labor is putting the suspension back to new. A 70K-mile car is simply going to have more wear there, in addition to the age-related issues every 308/328 has/had.

I would also pay attention to the rust warning. 308/328s are difficult cars to disassemble, metalwork and paint. Window glass, window trim, gaskets, etc., can be pricey and hard to find (IIRC, the rear window gasket on a 308/328 runs north of $600...) I wouldn't worry about a spider leaking more, because like all Ferraris it probably doesn't get wet unless it's being washed. But check door bottoms, body seams and any sharp angles in the metal -- e.g., those fender louvre cutouts -- where flexion can crack the paint.

The truth is that a 70K-mile car has more internal engine wear, and wear on other components, than a 10K-mile car. That's why we have odometers in cars. And, unfortunately, Ferrari engines aren't cheap to rebuild, which is why people obsess over Ferrari odometers.

That said, given the age of these cars, and their low dollar value that makes restoration financially not viable, a 70K-mile car that has had the suspension and other major systems refurbished would be a more desirable car, IMHO, than a 10K-mile one that has been sitting around for years.

To the OP: Don't plan to make money on this car. If the engine makes good compression/leakdown numbers, and everything works, and there is no visible rust, buy it and look at it as a long term series of projects that you can take one at a time.

If it's rusty, keep looking. For what it costs to properly disassemble the car, eradicate the rust and have it properly repainted, you could almost buy another '80-'82 308.

 

That being said, I also am more comfortable with a 100k car with a fresh rebuild than a 10k car which has sat much of its life. Bragging rights for a 10k car is interesting and may be collectable, but does not personally bring me any reassurance. What gets me are the racecars which are beat-on to no end constantly bringing more and more. Those things dont even have odometers. Why should any Ferrari if it is maintained correctly