308GT4 engine rebuild?

Sounds like they'd practically need to give you the car for free in order for you to have paid a sensible price by the time you've put it right.

It'll cost about the same to rebuild (and service) a GT4 as would to do a 328 & yet the car will be worth less than half - and there in lies the problem I think.

A replacement engine might be workable and yet if you go that route you end up with a non original car.

If you really just want to buy a Gt4 then I'd say avoid - there will be a good one out there somewhere. If you want to buy something to work on then maybe its a good project - but only if you are prepared to lose on it & are doing it for the fun of doing it. As I said, they'll need to practically give you the car to make it a half sensible deal.

I.

 

Geez.... IMHO: Pass on that one.

How much are they asking for the car?

The ad on mine expires today (I think). I'm not going to relist, because I've decided to fix the synchro. And after that, I might just decide to keep the car, since everything else is pretty solid.

But....

What are you looking for Brian? A car, or a project? Or both?

 

TRutlands has rebuilt short blocks and complete engines...start there with assessment....as noted because they are the lowest value you can be upside down pretty easily in a GT4, but who knows the future $$$?

Always behind a GTS or GTB.....LOL!

 

I have a 308 engine I have been collecting parts for to do a overhaul. Many parts from TRutlands, etc. Prices are aprox. without getting out invoices.

Full gasket and seal set... $1400

Full set engine bearings....$700

New Wiseco 10.4:1 pistons...$1000

Check and polish crankshaft....$65

Bore liners oversize.........$300

I have not yet started on the heads, need all new valves, springs, guide work, maybe some light porting/matching. I am hoping to stay around $2000 or less if I am lucky. Seems most shops hear or see Ferrari and get instant $$$ signs in thier eyes. I also need to rebush the rod small ends and have them checked.


Thats just the engine. Plan on a second gear syncro at least, and overhaul the carbs and distributors. Headers may need work, maybe coating, maybe a muffler.

 

Based (in part) on the price of the parts FAR exceeding the value of the finished product. Secondly: Based on the X-factor. i.e., the unknowns and might-as-well's. Water pump, belts, bearings, etc..

I know. If you're going to rebuild the engine anyway, who cares? It's just a few more parts. But those parts add up. And VERY quickly with a Ferrari.

Also, the owner says he's owned it for 5yrs., but does not indicate any service having been done on the car during that time, except to replace the shocks, tires, throttle cable, brake pads, distributor(cap? the whole thing?), wires and battery. What about the timing belts and bearings?

BTW: I know all of this is not good news for you. I know EXACTLY what it's like to try and shop for one of these cars. And seeing them neglected is so disappointing. And this car has been for sale for awhile too.

Also, keep in mind that the owner states "low compression in one cylinder". Not "no compression". I asked him about this too, and he said it was zero. So the ad (and the seller) is/are a little mis-leading. So beware.

In light of what the owner has stated, you might as well plan on doing everything.

So for starters:

timing belt and bearings $350
Waterpump kit is about $300
Gaskets and valve seas $350
Belt kit $80
Rebuilt heads will run $4400/ea (exchage from T. Rutlands)

You're already at $10,000 in parts.

And just about the time you get on the freeway for that first long trip, let's hope something doesn't go askew on the bottem end, or heaven forbid, the gearbox!

BTW: The lockout on reverse is the spring and clip located inside the shift mechanism. It can easily be seen by looking down the shift lever. If the spring is there and just loose, then it simply (or not so simply) needs to be re-attached. If it's missing, good luck finding another one! Newer models incorporate the lockout on the bottom of the shiftlever inside the box. Ask me how I know....<frustrated grimmace>

True enough. And the smaller the project the better.

Even a small project (like my syncro) tends to deminish the value of this type of car considerably. If I did not feel that I could replace a syncro, I would have never bought my GT4 either.

 

I bought mine with a broken piston. I only replaced the one piston/liner, but replaced all other consumables: bearings, rings, clutch, valve job all around. $4000. in parts, $3300 in machine work which included reassembly of the bottom end. It works great. Most parts came from GT, but Rutlands has been good also.I guess total miles factor into the equation. My car only had 34,000 miles on it. If it had alot more, it might have needed a rebore and pistons.
Cheers,
Tom

 

It wasn't the cap I was interested in, it was that fancy leather thingamabob! In all seriousness, the car would be no more overpriced at $10,000 than my "mystery Jalpa" would be at $5k. Aside from the motor and the driver's side seat (oh, and the fact that it's silver with black boxter trim and a dark-blue interior), it's a good car. Very original, at least, to my rookie eyes.

I have to really give Brian credit here, though... He's more mechanical than I will ever hope to be, and the fact that he's wanting to take this project on is very cool IMO. It'll be cool to have a GT4 buddy no more than a mile or two down the road, too! Plus...I'll finally get to see one of these motors cracked open "in the flesh!"

 

This GT4 in question is strictly for the well-equiped DIY'er, or one who owns their own service garage. Labor costs is what kills project cars like these, so if you can do the work yourself, you can actually come out ahead.

My GT4 had three bent exhaust valves when I bought it. Thankfully, they held-on and it was simply a matter of replacing them and the guides, cleaning up the seats and buttoning it back up. I never totaled up the bills but I'm sure I spent four figures in parts alone (not only for this top-end rebuild, but other items to cover ALOT of deferred sevice). Except for re-surfacing the flywheel, I did all of the work in my home garage (big job though).
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Listen carefully, Grasshopper, as I tell the tale........

There are STILL low miles, well manitained one or two owner 1975-1977 cars out there...I did a deal two years ago...78 year old PG&E engineer, who used it 5K miles in 20 years, it ran 2,700 more coming home......not a single problem.

So you see the difference in that deal and finding a neglected car that needs SO MUCH!

Not to say the numbers don't work, but expensive problems knock the legs out from under your chances of coming out on the deal....I don't know why the 308GT4s are harder to find in this condition........

The 308GTBs sold more units, I suppose........we had a GT4 in back last year, I'll ask what happened to it........

 

<Laughing> Was on my mind the whole way back from Oregon!

But my dad lives near Sacramento. My brother lives near Napa (which is the side trip I took), and where I spent the night.

So I had (to use a poker term) some "outs".

But yes. It was a gamble. But then again, the car I bought seemed to run perfectly. And I had a reasonable expectation that the car had recently undergone a major service. Although I didn't know it was a complete rebuild. That was just pure luck.

And to use another poker phrase, "I'd rather be lucky than good!".

"If" it only has a bent valve, and "if" you only do the minimal work necessary to get it running, and "if" you don't run into a got'cha, and you can manage to spend under $3K to get it fixed, then you'll be about par with me in terms of investment dollars and time.

So... IMO If you have to finance the car. Pass.

If you're willing to put the cash on the line, and have a reserve to do the work, then maybe it's worthwhile, if you have everything you need (garage, cherry picker, tools, confidence, etc. -- I know you've got a (Aaron) cheerleader! ) then maybe it's a "go".

Good luck. Keep us posted!

 

Peter,

I like that window thingie... Is it wood, or cardboard?

Uh..... You didn't happen to make a pattern, did you?

 

Brian... buy my GT4 and be done with it.. then I can look for a 512BB or something...

Serg

 

Master Poe You so wise.

good advice!

 

It's a tough decision.

How much do you love the car? Is it something you've always wanted? Have waited years to buy one? Will you keep it a long time, etc.?

If you answered yes, then the love of the car may be worth the costs to make it new again. You'll never get that money back, but you will have a beautiful (at least in my eyes), well running car. If you are going to keep it for a long time, the money spent becomes history.

Unfortunately, this car would probably bring in more as parts than as a whole car. But, that means one less 308 gt4 out there. There were only 2800 or so to begin with. On the other hand, those of us who have maintained our cars may eventually see some appreciation as they become rarer (but it's a long shot- not many people love these slow, odd looking, bastard child ferrari's).

I would love to see everyone of these cars picked up and restored, but it's not going to happen. I will continue to maintain my car, and keep it running and looking good. At some point I know I will have put more into the car than it's worth, but I don't care. It's still a lot of fun.

Dom

 

Not yet. The PO is sending me a copy of the receipt from Valtellina Automobili (in Sausolito, CA), with the owner's booklet. The PPO, has the original and has promised to give that to me too, when he comes back from Argentina, along with some other receipts.

I've called Valtellina ("The Crazy German") who verified on the phone that they did the work. They too have promised to get me a copy of the work order, but I have not (yet) followed up with them. So I don't know what was spent on the rebuild. I know it was just done stock. Nothing special, like HC pistons, oversized valves or anything like that. It burns little oil, so I suspect the valve guides (at a minimum) were replaced. And there is no noise from the valve train that would lead me to believe there was anything wrong with the clearances, or cam bearings.

The engine (as you can see from my various pics) is very clean, and all of the hoses, fuel lines, clamps, etc., are new. He didn't detail the engine like some shops do. And I think that's unfortunate. But it will give me an extra "fun" project to do when I do the syncro.

Black? Red? Silver? Hmmmm.... Decisions, decisions, decisions...

The PPPO told me that it had one very weak cylinder when the PPO bought it and then drove it from NYC to SFO. And I know it was at least 2yrs before the PPO had the rebuild done. So it must have been an issue, but not a terribly problematic one. And it no longer has a weak cylinder. So there is at least some epistemological proof that the work was done.

But why he didn't have the syncro fixed as well, I can only guess. But my guess is that the expense of the repair (like the sliver one in Palo Alto) outweighed the value of the vehicle. And he might also have known there was a good chance that he would take the job in Buenos Aries and be forced to sell the car prematurely.

Which of course, is what happened.

Keep looking Brian. You'll find the right car. Then you, Serg, Aaron and I can all race to the hair-pin on Hwy9 and see who crashes first!

Just kidding of course. I'd never drive that far for one lousy road!

...or would I? Hmmmmmm......

 

This car is in Portland? That's where mine was as well,after Mario blessed it at the winery it was all out for home....

Still you didn't mention the $13K number before, these cars are rising lately so you may have wiggle room.....

And blue interiors are very calming, don't slam on them.......

I was just trying to set the stage for the lesson to the story...all these young guys fly off half loaded, as I did on my first one I suppose, it was throwing four foot of flames, backfiring from the tailpipes on the way home.....when it ran! Talk about "Buyer's remorse"!!!!!

Later we found two MSDs wired via one single 20A relay with lamp zip cord.......what's that, 18AWG? LOL!

 

Try 128 and 121 off of Hwy 5......

One cylinder isn't too noticable, they'll run on only one bank!

 

Isn't 128 off US 101?

That's locally called the "Booneville Road". There's a nice hair pin at the base, near Cloverdale just before it goes up the hill.

Then there's the nice "crest of a hill" with a sharp turn and sudden drop, on the other side, the kind that you can't see as you come up. It's also the kind that makes your stomach float as you think you're going to fly several hundred feet in the air and off into the Roederer vineyards somewhere outside Philo.

And Navarro canyon is WAY cool, as it heads out to the coast just below Albion.

Willits Road (Hwy 20 from Ft. Bragg to Willits) ain't too shabby either. A lot of wrecks though about 6 or 7 miles out at a place called "13 corners".

Oooops... 121, that's Lake Berryessa. Yes. 128 goes there too.

Hmmm.... Didn't know it went all the way to Winters.

I've driven around that area a little <wink> bit. Silverado Trail, and the back way to 101. Two of the pictures in my thread about brining my GT4 back from Oregon (BTW: Brian's looking at a car in Palo Alto. Not Oregon), were taken on Silverado Trail, right near 121.

One of my lifelong dreams was to drive a Ferrari through the Napa Valley.

Now I've done it twice! What a thrill!

 

All I know is it was almost midnight, we had been up flying out since four AM, heavy security screen for both of us (one way, cash ticket, no luggage) and they thought her hot pants and sandals were HIDING something...WTF?

Car was running great, new Konis all around but I warped the rotors towards the end and in that hairpin we surprised a big buck and that sum beyotch went STRAIGHT UP a cliff instead of thru her side of the front windshied!

I didn't know they could do that! LOL!

The hotel, the old one on the square in Sonoma, was expecting a late chack in...she went to bed as I finfished the bottle of Maker's Mark.......it was already low I didn;t drink ALL of it..

Nice drive, nice town, Mario has a nice place there, with a guy playing Italian songs on an accordian all the time......