308GT4 in Spain

There's a lot of red flags based on the limited information given - does the old man actually want all the grief involved with owning & driving a 50 yr old Ferrari - why is the car all the way on the other side of Europe - is it wise for the son to buy this car knowing nothing about Ferraris - has the friend read or steered his friend to all the GT4 experience & buying advice here - my advice: lovely idea but don't do it

 

Still a very interesting situation. Many people will tell you a 308 or 328 is a great "first" Ferrari, that largely stems from its relative reliability and lower cost of maintenance than its 12 cylinder counterparts. While that may be the case, it's still a Ferrari, and still a considerable undertaking. I'd never recommend anyone who knows nothing about them to buy a vintage Ferrari, it's just not a wise thing to do. When you're dealing with a vintage Ferrari, finding parts will present difficulties, even finding simple consumables like oil, filters, hoses, etc., can present challenges. Carburetor cars, like the 308 GT4, require more maintenance and finesse to keep them running smoothly. If you're friend knows nothing about Ferraris, then he'll be taking that car in for every minor thing, and he'll likely grow to hate the car when he sees how long it takes to service and how much it costs.

My advice is don't do it. Get to know the car first by reading about it, talking to owners, attending events, and simply research the car to no end. When faced with my first opportunity to buy a Ferrari, I ended up not doing it because I realized that—no matter how much I liked the car—I didn't know what I was looking at. I took me another six years before I was confident enough to pull the trigger—and I spent that six years talking to owners and researching the cars like crazy. You can't just put all your trust in a mechanic performing a PPI. All a mechanic will do is (maybe) be able to tell you if it has any impending failures looming in the near future. They can rarely tell you if the car is "correct" (if that's what you're looking for).

There's so precious few of the cars left, I hate to see them fall into the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing. I don't mean any disrespect by that, but buying a vintage Ferrari isn't like buying any modern car at all, and it usually means the car will fall into a sad state of disrepair. There's a lot more to a vintage Ferrari than any PPI will ever reveal.

 

Translation - drive the car, buy the car.

 

And that is the positive contrasting view! I mean, some people have the wherewithal to buy something they know nothing about and make it work anyway. I was never that daring or bold, at least not when came to expensive items like cars. They are truly fun cars, the best you'll ever own… as long as you take care of the properly. Otherwise, they're nightmare!

So yeah, maybe I should say "If it were me, I wouldn't," simply because I'm not willing to take that risk. Whereas others may have more gumption than I do! Only the buyer will know what works best for them. Good luck either to 'em way!

 

You don't know Europe ;-)

If the guy survived Eastern Europe he'll survive buying a GT4 in Spain. Hopefully his dad will survive driving it at 75 - lots of wild variables in the story

 

Sadly, you are correct. I don't know Europe. Wish I did though!

 

They are very simple cars compared to todays ECU littered cars stuffed with electrotwackery.
Easy to maintain plenty of Ferrari specialist and indeed boggo mechanics in the EU to fix .Plus loadsa social media support .

What to look for ?
Everything works , gauges , windows , lights pop up / down etc .Ariel works and wipers .
A lot of electrical gremlins stem from the poor connections in the fuse box under the passengers side glove box .Take a peek @ that for tell tale overheats .As corrosion occurs the resistance increases and heat damage is visible esp the RHS cooling fan fuse holders .Thoses fans should come on around 89 degrees check they do on a test drive .Try the AC it automatically switches on the RHS fan anyhow ( it’s condenser is there ) .Check the belts for cracks you can just peek at them from above in the engine bay .
.

Fresh lub services .New ish pipes in the engine bay both fuel + water .A hidden one is the horizontal fuel filler LHS rear 1/4 .

Bug bears they all get are

1- leaky transmission shaft seal - where the gear change rod enters the fwd part of the motor .

2- The front rad has its surrounding foam packing and the rad itself looks ok along with decent hoses .

3- The four cam seals weep .Not if but when ! Don’t be put off by a bit of weep The cam covers also start to weep .All This can be rebased ( ie seals / gaskets replaced) at a cam belt service .The service interval is a contentious point on forums by generally with belts the industry std is 5 yrs - talking belted Renault, VW s Fiats , = other EU cars .

4- The suspension bushes on the 8 A arms ( 2x each corner ) are rubber Flambloc thing's and they perish = clunky ride .Although parts are inexpensive there’s a lot 16 in all and a bit of “ while you are in there “ others suspension bushes = shockers , drop links etc worth doing as well It’s not Ferrari specific A N Other spanner man can do a suspension refresh .Indeed you can get poly bushes like A N Other EU car if you want and be done with them for ever ? At the expense of a slightly harsher ride from a NVH point of view .

5- The steering rack ( a 60 s U.K. motor component from a Morris minor / mini ) very direct and plenty of feel when new had an Achilles heel of a plastic / nylon outer bushes that gradually wear ,Especially the one furthest away from the driver .= this gives front end wander and looses feel .They can be rebuilt or replaced again not Ferrari specific any spanner man dealing with classics esp U.K. cars can do the work .

6 - The OEM steel ANSA Exhaust rear box rots out .It’s the upper front side first so basically invisible until it blows .Most replace with stainless steel .

7 - AC pipes leak the modern R 123 ( or what ever ) gas ,There is an update pipe set available.It’s a phaff to replace as they run in the cills .Check that’s been done .When gassed up the AC is ok ish .

It should by now have some documentation regarding points 1-7 by now look out for them or ask the vendor where the car is with them .

 

All correct Portofino, you offer good advice. But you miss off the one most important thing. Rust. Unless it has had a lot of work done on it, and even then, there will be rust. Main areas to check are the sills, door bottoms, rear wheel arch and he boot floor, front windscreen scuttle, spaceframe particularly at the front and even main chassis tubes. Trust me - I or a previous owner of my car have experienced problems in all those areas. These are not like modern cars - there is no galvanising.

 

Plus ...

Cooling system - the aluminium and rubber pipes tend not to last 40 years and the water pump bearings are pretty weak. Fuel tanks tend to develop pinholes and leak.

These are 40+ year-old cars and there will be things that need replacing or repairing. It can all be done, but don't consider buying the car unless you are prepared to fix the issues you will find and spend the money that it takes.

 

Or split like one of my tanks did depositing 35L of fuel in the carcoon before I found out! As you say Patrick most things are reparable and replacement mechanical parts are easy to find, but not trim parts.

 

I believe tht this response should be included in the:

WHAT TO LOOK FOR WHEN BUYING A 308/328 - BUYERS GUIDE

Thead at the top of the 3x8 page.

 

Was thinking a Spanish car might , just might be free of N EU , esp U.K. salted road wash ? My S Italian 208 was when imported .

 

Get a PPI

 

Possibly

 

But has to be with an inspector who has some knowledge of cars of the period. No idea where to find one in Spain. Many here in UK.

 

Would be interesting to see pics of the car and what the price is. I have advised a few here in UK having seen pics and some very obvious problems.

 

I Agree, that’s why he needs to research and find a reputable shop that can do it. There should be a Ferrari dealership or Independent shop that specializes on Italian cars there.

 

Amen. I was shocked to see bare metal on the backside of some body panels around the engine bay with no sign of any primer.




Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

 

Not very many Ferrari delaerships these days have experience of the older cars. He would be better off finding a good independent. Many here in UK but have no idea about Spain.

 

Do't let your friend be put off. As long as he is aware of all the above and the problems have already been sorted , or he knows about them and is prepared to sort them, these are great cars and real fun to drive. Sure, they are getting on for 50 years old and won't match any modern fast or even not so fast hatch, but that is not the point. They are of their time and are just great fun to drive. I describe them as a large go kart. The direct feel of the non power assisted steering is amazing. The sound of the carbs behind your head, the joy of a successful smooth change of gears through the open gate, it is all just so much fun.
If you just want a fast soulless modern car - then fine. When I put my GT4 to bed in the barn it lives in , 4 miles from where I live, and I drive my modern almost silent daily driver back to home, I always realise how much more I had just enjoyed the experience of driving my GT4.

If the car is right your friend should go for it. I am 73 and have owned my GT4 for 9 years and in that time have driven it nearly 30K miles including annual trips to mainland Europe including to Maranello in 2018 and Spain and Portugal in 2019. Back to France again in June. I'm sure his 75 year old Dad will just love it.

 

Good morning Wilib. If you or your friend need any information about that car, write to me. I'm spanish based car connoisseur and I may be able to help you. [email protected]

Jorge HG