308i camshaft timing mark | FerrariChat

308i camshaft timing mark

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by MAD308, Mar 1, 2009.

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  1. MAD308

    MAD308 Karting

    Feb 19, 2005
    116
    Montréal, Canada
    Full Name:
    Marc-André Desrosier
    #1 MAD308, Mar 1, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    In my too long quest of finding why my bank 1 header is glowing red hot after only being idle for 15 minutes, I've decided to check the timing (among other things) and discover that, to the best I can set the flywheel TDC since it's very hard to see anything down the lookout triangle, the camshaft TDC is off from the below mark. Below simply because there seems to, at least from touch, a 2nd upper mark.

    Can it had slip a tooth or is this normal ?

    Regards
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  2. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
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    Paul
    All the camshafts Ferrari made do not have perfect alignment marks, and they are not called such. They are called index marks and the correct procedure is to time the cams with a degree wheel. So unless you have a degree wheel and care to take the time to figure it out, I would assume your cam is perfectly in time.

    And all is based on the fact that unless you have a record of someone finding true TDC, your flywheel marks may not be aligning with the resister plate accurately.

    When is the last time the belts were changed? If you dont have good records, perhaps the time to learn your car is in order? Valve timing with new belts and valve clearance check and/or adjustment would be a good place to start. But first I would check ignition timing on both banks, as well as proper fuel mixture and that you dont have a partially plugged catalytic convertor, exhaust leaks etc.. If the header is getting that hot you can be sure the exhaust valves are cooking.
     
  3. MAD308

    MAD308 Karting

    Feb 19, 2005
    116
    Montréal, Canada
    Full Name:
    Marc-André Desrosier
    thanks Artvonne.

    The header are glowing red without the cats (both are empty) and without the muffler, to get rid of all restriction if any.

    Now, I've remove the plug wires and the caps, and i've notice that both rotors are not aligned with each other, regardless of the TDC. Bank 5-8 is at 9h15, straight and pointing at the trunk, bank 1-4 is more at 9h20 but still pointing at the trunk.

    Thanks
    Marc-André
     
  4. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
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    Why would you assume they should be aligned to one another or parallel? One distributor fires one bank of cylinders, the other distributor fires the other, 90 degrees crankshaft rotation later. Theoretically the rotors could both point the same direction, but they would still be 45 degees (half crankshaft) apart from one another relative to their particular distributor. I would worry more about how the distributors, caps and rotors are "clocked" to the engine as per the service manual, and that both ignitions are strobe timed properly to their proper flywheel marks.
     
  5. gilligan308

    gilligan308 Karting

    Dec 8, 2008
    141
    S.W.Florida
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    Brian
    Do you still have the air pump connected? My exhaust does the same. When you first start the engine cold it is running very rich until it is warmed up.Then add air from the air pump and it is like a torch inside of your exhaust.I am pulling the air injection tubes as they block the exhaust ports and can overheat the valves.Let me know,Gilligan
     
  6. MAD308

    MAD308 Karting

    Feb 19, 2005
    116
    Montréal, Canada
    Full Name:
    Marc-André Desrosier
    Artvonne :
    I'm only guessing for now. I'm not assuming anything. The way both rotors are pointing I should be on cylinder 4 on both banks with a firing order of 4-2-1-3 on both. My simple knowledge of engines would tell me that at TDC on bank 1, the engine would fire cylinder 1 first not 4. In which case I'm 90 degrees of alignment, that the engine skipped numerous tooth over the years. This would be consequent with the 2 to 1 flywheel to camshaft rotation. But again I may be completely wrong. In any case I will strobe the engine soon.

    Gilligan :
    Yes I still have the original set-up including the air pump. I've notice a significant crack on the rubber hose that is attached to the diverter valve to the bottom of the engine (part number 115057 on TAV #9)


    Again thanks for all your help
     
  7. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
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    4-2-1-3 is still 1-3-4-2, its just coming 360 degrees later. Remember, a 4 cycle engine has to make two full rotations of the crankshaft (720 degrees), for any cylinder to fire once. If the flywheel is on TDC for the rear bank (PM1-4) the rear bank distributor rotor should point at the number one position on the distributor. If its pointing at 4, it would call the whole deal into question and carefully go through all settings to make sure everything is setup properly.

    Also remember that to set ignition timing and distributor setup on the front bank, you must rotate the crankshaft in the normal direction (clockwise at the main drive pulley) 90 degrees beyond the PM1-4 flywheel marks, and set the flywheel on PM5-8 marks. You cannot time the front bank using the flywheel marks for the rear bank.
     
  8. MAD308

    MAD308 Karting

    Feb 19, 2005
    116
    Montréal, Canada
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    Marc-André Desrosier
    Thanks again ArtVonne.
    All is line up correctly, flywheel PM 1-4 marking + rotor at 1 + camshaft line right on target.

    Now it's down to the flywheel markers.
     
  9. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
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    Now rotate crank 90 degrees to PM 5-8 and check front dizzy rotor pointing at #5.

    Just remember that without removing the front cam cover you have no way to verify valve timing is close to index marks. Actually there is, but it is quite involved.
     

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