308QV starting issue | FerrariChat

308QV starting issue

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by 308 milano, Sep 29, 2007.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 15, 2007
    5,343
    Montana
    Full Name:
    Kim
    Hello Everyone! I purchased my 84 308 gtb last october and let me just say its been a learn as I go process.I had it checked out before I purchased it and everything came back okay except that I needed a new warm up regulator which I later purchased and installed (helped alot!) I start the car every few weeks and let it run for about 40 minutes then shut it down and put it back in the garage. I have to turn the ignition over 4 or 5 times (sometimes) in the begining before it fires up, other times it fires and runs in about three seconds. I can shut the car off and try to restart it and sometimes it will fire right up and other times it will fire for a second and quit and it will do this 7 or 8 times then when I start to rotate the ignition switch for the 9th time or so I will hear a "click" over by the fuse box and the car starts right up. Makes no differance if its hot or cold. Some times I can shut it off and it will start right up 4 or five times in a row, then its back to the old fire and die routine Ive changed to Birdmans fuse blocks and that fixed everything else but this problem. A leak down test was done at time of purchase and passed (so I guess its holding fuel pressure?) Is this the fuel pump relay going bad? Again Im a learn as I go mechanic versed in chevy. Thanks for any help!
     
  2. spiderseeker

    spiderseeker Formula 3

    Jul 22, 2005
    1,718
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Steve
    The leak down test has nothing to do with fuel.(valve test I think)
    I think that you need to have your fuel pressure tested. Could be weak fuel pump, dirty filter etc. Maybe even bad relay for the fuel pump.
    My 85qv ALWAYS starts instantly. (takes just a little longer when hot)
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,931
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Could be. There is also another relay involved in supplying +12V power to the fuel pump on your model so as an easy first step try some same PN relays from other positions in those two positions. The second relay has a name like "start valve relay" or "G-relay for start injector" and is the ...101 part number on the case (whereas, the fuel pump relay is labeled more clearly and is of the ...113 part number). Also gives you a chance to give the fuses/fuseblocks a quick visual (esp. left upper corner of left fusebox).

    You should also learn how to unplug the safety switch so that you can run/check the fuel pump with the key "on", but the engine not running (the audible test), and when you're having an episode of "many crank attempt but no start", running the fuel pump beforehand via this method and then trying to start can give some additional clues. Try a search on "safety switch".
     
  4. 335s

    335s Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2007
    870
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    T. Monma
    there exists a xener diode in a relay which pops-most typically from a voltage surge when "jumped"-this is an internal item in an aluminum can, in 3.2litre cars it is a GM blade relay found on top of a relay in the trunk(10amp as I recall)
    If this "landslide" diode is gone-or-weak, the car will be difficult if not impossible to start.
    also worth examing are the integity of the current paths on the mylar of the fuse pannel-a NOTORIOUS failure zone on 1980s cars-even on 288GTOs..
    Lastly, the function of the cold start injector on old cars that "sit mostly" is not to be overlooked...
    the hot re-start decay factor engineered in cis cars is NOT that sophisticated....
    closed loop was a big deal, but that is really about it...
    remeber that these cars still use thottle KNOBS for idle speed tweaking, and DO not have electically controlled Idle speed motors....this is 1984 and 1985!
    CISe was in full implementation in USA market in 9-83 by MBNA....Porsche/AUDI NA
     
  5. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 15, 2007
    5,343
    Montana
    Full Name:
    Kim
    Guys, Thanks for the advise,I make a pretty lousy mechanic so you might have to simplify (if possible) your response.I understand the part about swaping some relays to see if one is faulty. The leak down test that was done was in reguards to the fuel system.One thing that stands out is that I dont hear the fuel pump when I turn the ignition on like I would in most cars. I dont think this has anything to do with bad fuel or weak fuel pump as it runs like a champ once I hear that little "click" over by the fuse panel. Right now I have the plenum off the car refinishing it and changing cooling and emission hoses. I will try steve's suggestion in reguards to the relays mon. or tues. when its back together. If the fuel pump was going bad wouldn't it stumble with acceleration? I don't have any of that.
     
  6. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 15, 2007
    5,343
    Montana
    Full Name:
    Kim
    335s Am I to understand that by jumping my 308 (because I have) that I could have blown a 10amp fuse located in the trunk that would cause this? Sorry to sound so incompetent.
     
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,931
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    This is "normal" for your 308QV and is related to how the system of the safety switch and the two relays works -- i.e., if the airflow metering plate is not deflected (i.e., the safety switch contacts are "closed"), +12V power reaches the FP only with the key in pos III (start), not pos II (run). By unplugging the safety switch, this puts +12V power to close the fuel pump relay with the key in pos II, regardless of whether, or not, the airflow metering plate is deflected. Search...read threads... look at pictures...fix...;)
     
  8. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,931
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    That's another possible flaw on a US version '84-'85 308QV (K-Jet with Lambda), but the symptom for that fault is a little different than you describe, and it usually doesn't "fix" itself (i.e., isn't so intermittent -- but that can happen). That flaw (no +12V power from the protection relay to run the FV/ECU because the 10A fuse on the protection relay is blown or the protection relay itself is kaputt) usually shows up as "low/rough idle, needing throttle blips to stay running, but quasi-runs at higher RPM". (Like the audible test for the fuel pump with the safety switch unplugged) You should learn how to feel/listen to the FV to confirm whether, or not, it's "buzzing" when the FP is running. It should always buzz, warm or cold, whenever the FP is running -- so do the unplug the safety switch/key "on" thing and feel the FV too.
     
  9. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 15, 2007
    5,343
    Montana
    Full Name:
    Kim
    Steve, Thanks for all the help, I'll make sure visit prior threads on the safety switch. So, Am I going to hurt something by jumping my car? It doesn't happen often, but it has happened. Kim
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,931
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    No trouble -- but it isn't like this is the first time this subject has come up ;)

    Your model is fairly immune to jumping problems since it has the protection relay architecture -- which "protects" the injection ECU from an overvoltage condition (from your alternator or somebody else's altenator) via the Zener diode going into conduction and (intentionally) blowing the 10A fuse if an overvoltage is ever present. If your FV is not buzzing when it should be, then you'll need to go looking into the protection relay and/or fuse.
     

Share This Page