30K Started: Venturing into new Territory! | FerrariChat

30K Started: Venturing into new Territory!

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Owens84QV, Jan 3, 2006.

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  1. Owens84QV

    Owens84QV F1 Rookie

    Oct 2, 2001
    4,486
    Somewhere in NC
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Well, a years worth or reading and study are about to be put to the test. Over the next month, a friend and I will be doing my 30K-major on my 308QV including the replacement of my clutch. Last night, I parked the car in it's resting spot for the next 7-8 weeks so the work can begin. Between now and the first weekend in February, I will be undertaking the replacement of the belts, tensioner bearings, gaskets, and a new clutch.

    This 7-8 week period will also be used to accomplish a complete suspension refurbishment including new QA-1 shocks, Eibach springs, new ball joints, tie-rods, poly suspension bushings, and Goodridge brake lines.

    As I begin to wade into new territory, I want to thank Verell, Mike Charness, Birdman, Steve Rochlin, and Spang308 for all of the notes, pictures, and guidance they have provided me. I know I've left out several contributors from whom I've taken notes and I apologize.

    I'll be taking lots of pictures and notes with the end goal of being able to help someone else down the road.

    See everyone on the other side!
     
  2. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    36,571
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    I'll be checking in often. Good luck.
     
  3. indaville

    indaville Formula 3

    Oct 6, 2005
    2,309
    Louisville, KY
    This should be a great thread!!
     
  4. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    Greg-

    I'm also in the middle of a Euro 308 QV suspension/steering rebuild right now. I'm not going as far as you are- no new shocks this round. I'm doing a-arm bushings, repaint of components, drop-link bushings, sway bar bushings, front bearings, caliper rebuilds, rotors turned, new brake lines and pads, rebuilt steering rack and new mount bushings. No belts and gaskets this time thank you!

    Any info and photos you can post will be great for future reference. My only suggestion is that a new post be started documenting the progression of the 30K service, and separate post for the suspension rebuild. I was going to start a suspension rebuild post soon, but if you want to combine info and photos in one big post, that would be great. The more info that can be found in one place is always good.

    There have been a number of great suspension rebuild posts, but many of them lost the photos in a crash- which makes them a little hard to understand.

    If this sounds too confusing or am stepping on toes, please disregard.

    Also- I've done a 30K (with Verell's priceless help) and a clutch on my car, so if you have any questions I can try to help. PM me and I can send a phone #.

    Just a thought, what do you think?

    Good luck.

    jwise
     
  5. Owens84QV

    Owens84QV F1 Rookie

    Oct 2, 2001
    4,486
    Somewhere in NC
    Full Name:
    Greg
    The good thing about this 30K service is that the friend helping me is the previous owner of my car and he did the the 30K himself before he sold it to me. I'm getting the car prepped and ready for his arrival the first week of February. From there, we'll complete the belts, bearings, gaskets, and clutch and do a test drive. Once OK, I'll bring it back in the garage and get ready for the suspension.
     
  6. Owens84QV

    Owens84QV F1 Rookie

    Oct 2, 2001
    4,486
    Somewhere in NC
    Full Name:
    Greg
    See...I knew there was someone I left out. Your information to date has been a huge help! Do you happen to have any Energy Suspension P/N's for the FRONT drop-link and sway-bar bushings? I just haven't measured them yet to find out what I need.

    Great idea. As I get notes and pics, I'll post them in your thread.


    If I run into trouble over the next several weeks, I will definitely give you a buzz! Thanks for your help!
     
  7. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    #7 jwise, Jan 4, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Sway bar bushings- as long as your sway bars are 18mm in diameter, here is a photo of what I bought. The sway bar bushing # is hard to read in the photo- it is 9.5122R. 13.3101G is for the a-arm bushings.

    The drop link solid bushings I bought were from Superformance 100773 2892F (about $15 each). Rubber cone bushings for front drop link are 2891F3. Rack mount bushings are 108244 2678FR. All rubber cone bushings are very cheap- a few bucks each. These bushings can be sourced from Energy Suspension, but need to be turned down a little to work. I just bought the rubber ones from Superformance.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/320732.html


    I'll post all this again in a new thread.

    And- will do on starting a new thread. Thanks.
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  8. tatcat

    tatcat F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 3, 2001
    11,013
    panama city beach FL
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    rick c
    greg check your pm mail box.
     
  9. Owens84QV

    Owens84QV F1 Rookie

    Oct 2, 2001
    4,486
    Somewhere in NC
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    Greg
    Thanks so much! I'll add this to my parts list sheet. I had the Superformance P/A's, but you listing them is a good double-check.
     
  10. Owens84QV

    Owens84QV F1 Rookie

    Oct 2, 2001
    4,486
    Somewhere in NC
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    Greg
    I checked my mail box and you are certainly welcome to join my friend Paul & I the first weekend in February. I am in the process of disassembling the engine to gain access to the belts and cams for the belt change. My goal is to have everything disassembled and ready to go for that weekend.
     
  11. Owens84QV

    Owens84QV F1 Rookie

    Oct 2, 2001
    4,486
    Somewhere in NC
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    Greg
    #11 Owens84QV, Jan 7, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well, I started yesterday evening after work and spent several hours today 'stripping' the engine of the necessary piece-parts. I have never gone into the engine this deep so needless to say, I have been a bit nervous...I'm taking my time to ensure everything is bagged & tagged. A few pics from my effort so far...

    The cam end-caps required a little extra careful effort to come off. As far as the distributor end-caps and the valve covers, a couple very light taps with a rubber mallet works great.

    I placed plastic wrap over the exposed cams to prevent anything from falling into the many nooks and crannies as well as the exposed spark plug holes.

    Tomorrow, my goal is to have both timing belt covers removed with the AC compressor tie-wrapped to the side.

    My "To-Do" list of things to clean and prep increases by the hour...
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  12. tatcat

    tatcat F1 World Champ
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    Sep 3, 2001
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    rick c
    xcelnt email me with directions and a contact number and i'll be there. looking forward to it.
     
  13. Mark 328

    Mark 328 Formula Junior

    Nov 6, 2003
    510
    Orange, Ca
    Full Name:
    Mark Foley
    Greg:
    It looks like the previous owner did a good job of keeping the ends of the valve cover gaskets under the valve cover--they tend to slide-out when you put silicone on them. I was told a method to keep the gaskets from sliding out is to lightly tighten the valve cover bolts just to the point where the gaskets begin to squeeze down then leave it alone for a few days so the slicone can harden.
    Another thing that I will do when I do my belts again is to flush out the head under the valve cover and inside the oil pan area with a sprayer (Harbor Freight engine cleaner) filled with mineral spirits (AKA paint thinner or Stoddard solvent). This would clean every thing out and the dirty solvent would have plenty of time to run down to the pan and the remaining solvent would likely evaporate by the time you put oil back into the car. Timing wise I think it would be best to spray the solvent in there before you remove the cams--this way solvent would not get into the pressure oiling system.

    The belt change is a fun job and a great bonding experience:)

    Mark
     
  14. Mark 328

    Mark 328 Formula Junior

    Nov 6, 2003
    510
    Orange, Ca
    Full Name:
    Mark Foley
    Also, to prevent anything from falling into the opening, I would put the old oil filter back on.
     
  15. HobbsTC

    HobbsTC Formula 3
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    Jun 14, 2004
    1,469
    Lakeland, FL
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    Thomas
    Hey Greg. Give me a shout if you need a hand one weekend. And let me know when Paul gets there and the fun begins. I'll be your hecklers.
     
  16. Owens84QV

    Owens84QV F1 Rookie

    Oct 2, 2001
    4,486
    Somewhere in NC
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    Greg
    My friend Paul arrives Feb 3rd, Friday evening...come by Saturday afternoon if you want. Call me...933-8408.
     
  17. Owens84QV

    Owens84QV F1 Rookie

    Oct 2, 2001
    4,486
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    Greg
    Sorry for not posting in a while...been super busy at work. I have new pics to post, I'll do that when I get home. Both timing belt covers off, AC compressor out, alternator out.
     
  18. CarlH

    CarlH Karting

    Feb 5, 2004
    81
    MD
    Full Name:
    Carl H.
    I will keep tabs on your progress as I am gearing up for the same. My 83 QV has 32K. The service was done at 29K before I bought the car a year ago, but it was over 7 ago years according to the records. I need to do the belts and front end rebuild. If anyone in the Baltimore - Annapolis - DC area is planning major DIY service on a 308 series, I'll offer to assist (my pracitce run) as best I can.

    Keep up the post (both threads) and good luck!
     
  19. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,022
    Groton, MA
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    Verell Boaen
    A better way to avoid the problem is to use a lot less RTV. It only takes a match head dab right at the bottom of the o-ring groove. From the picture, way too much RTV was used the last time.

    To further ensure the gasket ends stay in place, I put a drop of crazy glue on the head's gasket mounting surface about 15mm(3/8") back from the bottom of the groove, press the gasket down onto it until it's set.

    It's also important to make sure the gasket ends are trimmed back about 1mm from the o-ring. The blue gaskets have been coming thru that way, but the black ones reportedly still need to be trimmed.
     
  20. Owens84QV

    Owens84QV F1 Rookie

    Oct 2, 2001
    4,486
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    Greg
    Thanks Verell. I've been keeping notes and I'll add your thoughts / experiences into what I need to do.
     
  21. HobbsTC

    HobbsTC Formula 3
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    Jun 14, 2004
    1,469
    Lakeland, FL
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    Thomas

    Will do. Sounds fun.
     
  22. Owens84QV

    Owens84QV F1 Rookie

    Oct 2, 2001
    4,486
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    Greg
    #22 Owens84QV, Feb 11, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well...my friend (and previous owner of the car) was here last weekend and after 36 hours in the garage, we finally were able to turn the engine over using battery, but no coolant. We let the engine run for ~20 seconds several time, enough to listen to the engine and run through the gears of the freshly rebuilt clutch.

    Below are some pics of the night...

    Old tensioner bearing...came apart when we pulled it off the assembly. One bearing came off pretty easy, the other came apart . We rebuilt the tensioner assembly by cleaning the spring and shaft the spring mounts in.

    2nd pic...timing marks with flywheel at TDC and new belts on car. We had to remove the cam sprockets, "retime" the cams, place the belts back on the car, check timing again to the TDC marks on the flywheel a couple of times to make sure the cam marks lined up perfectly with the cam journal marks.

    Several pics down...new cam seals...with new belts on, the engine being put back together.

    Last pic...with the hard stuff out of the way, time to start drinking some wine as the rest of the engine and timing belt covers go back together.
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  23. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    Looks great- good job! Thanks for posting.

    I assume from the cam timing mark pictures that that was taken before adjustment? Those marks should be dead on, and then confirmed at the flywheel.

    Also- be careful running her too much without coolant.

    It's fun when you take it apart, put in new parts, and it actually runs like it did before... or better- isn't it?

    Thanks again-
    jwise
     
  24. Owens84QV

    Owens84QV F1 Rookie

    Oct 2, 2001
    4,486
    Somewhere in NC
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    Greg
    Yes!!!! Those marks on the cam / cam journal are before making the adjustments, but after the first fitting of the new belts. With the old belts still on the car, we checked to see how far off the timing was...1/2 tooth, 1/4 tooth, etc. With the new belts on the car, we then rotated the engine to see how much each cam sprocket needed to be adjusted.

    Before we tightened everything down for the last time, we confirmed 3X that everything was lining up with TDC at the flywheel.

    As far as running w/o coolant, we only started her a few times real briefly to make sure we didn't put her together only to find she needed to come apart for an adjustment.

    With the cams retimed and a rebuilt alternator, she purs like a kitten.

    As a side note (and this is what the 30K is for...finding stuff!), I got everything put back together yesterday afternoon and went out for the maiden voyage. Drove it down the block after everything was warmed up and she started to smoke real bad!...real bad! Got her back to the garage only to find a the large end of one CV boot completely off its sealing surface. The open boot had slung some grease onto the rear header!! Scared the crap out of me!
     
  25. tatcat

    tatcat F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 3, 2001
    11,013
    panama city beach FL
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    rick c
    glad to hear all went well. phoned a few times but got the machine. i'm still in for the suspension/ brake job. just let me know when.
     

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