312 PB - how many? | FerrariChat

312 PB - how many?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Bob Zambelli, Mar 5, 2008.

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  1. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli F1 Rookie
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    Can anyone tell me how many 312 PBs were built?

    Are they all still existing?

    Bob Z.
     
  2. XTP

    XTP Formula Junior

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  3. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
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    My very old notes show 0900 as an unraced example, sold by Mrs. Ferrari to Mrs. Chinetti, shown at NY Auto Show. Sounds goofy.
     
  4. Héros

    Héros Rookie

    Jul 16, 2004
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    We can note that s/n 0874 was destroyed during the fatal crash of Giunti at Buenos Aires 1000 km in January 1971. The car was never rebuilt.
     
  5. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I think there is a car built up from spares that does carry this # and it was raced by Coco and so far as I know is still owned by him.

    Others?

    David's P4 Continuation also uses this #.
     
  6. XTP

    XTP Formula Junior

    Aug 7, 2005
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    I found more info about 0900 on my computer.

    Full tekst:

    This photo shows 0900 at Chinetti's in 1992. This car was built up from spares with a spare chassis, by Diena & Silingardi in Modena in 1974. It was then stored at Diena's until 1977 and sold via Crepaldi of Milan on 16 December 1977 to Chinetti, who paid US$ 36.000. I have the paperwork. In 1977 or 1978 it was displayed by Chinetti during the NY auto show. On 16 April 1993 it was for sale at the 1st Annual Spring Auction in Trenton/NJ, but didn't sell. I have the auction catalogue. In January 1997 it was back in Italy, now at Sauro Mingarelli's shop in Bologna. Today still with Chinetti.
    Chassis type 623/012
    Engine type 001/1N, internal #44
    Gearbox type 623/LM, internal #3
    COPYRIGHT MARCEL MASSINI
     
  7. iwanna860monza

    iwanna860monza Karting

    Sep 19, 2004
    243
    In the very back of Antoine Prunet's book, Ferrari's the sports and racing cars it has a picture of a car built in 1974 by Ferrari or one of there contractors for a possible WSC (World Sportscar Championship) entry which never eventuated. It looked quite different to the 312PB, but I would assume was based on that chassis type, I am at work so cant check, will post more later. This could have been #0900 and may then have been modified and sold to Chinetti ??. All conjecture on my part.
    Further, and I apologise for inaccuracies, having read Wimpffen's seminal work Time and Two Seats, the WSC series was pretty thin at the time with semi competitive entries from Porsche (911 RSR & 911 RSR turbo), Mirage & Alfa, and only the Matra's being totally competitive. The media coverage of the events had dropped since the Ford/ Ferrari/ Porsche battles of the late 60's very early 70's. And secondarily the appointment of Montezemolo as racing manager in the early 70's led to the change of style and they just couldnt afford to build a successful Grand Prix car and a successful WSC car at the same time.

    Cheers
    Tim
     
  8. BIGHORN

    BIGHORN In Memoriam

    Sep 18, 2006
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    I thought 0900 was the David Piper P4 replica
     
  9. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Davids car has this # and so does this "PB"

    Best
     
  10. Michael Call

    Michael Call Formula 3
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    Bob,
    First you must understand that there were four specific developments of the 312 P(B): Type 623/001 - none survive-. Type 623/004-one survivor- (0880) Type 623/008 -two survivors- (0882 & 0884) Type 623/012 -seven survivors- (0886,0888,0890,0892,0894,0896 & 0900).

    Individual chassis histories:

    #0874: (Chassis type 623/001) This was the first prototype constructed in October, 1970. It originally had an aluminum body, it was later fitted with a glassfibre body. This chassis was DESTROYED (along with Ignazio Gunti) in Buenos Aires January, 1971.

    #0876: (Chassis type 623/001) This chassis was DESTROYED by Clay Regazzoni in a testing accident at Fiorano.

    #0878: (chassis type 623/001) This chassis was developed into the type 623/004 chassis (Ferrari project #249) and re- numbered as #0880. This car survives in the USA today.

    #0880: -See # 0878

    #0882: -This was the first 623/008 chassis (Ferrari project#256) This car survives in France.

    #0884: -(chassis type 623/008) This chassis was DESTROYED by fire at Sebring (1972) Chassis #0898 was re-numbered as 0884 for tax purposes. This car survives in France.

    Chassis type 623/012: All of these chassis were initially built as type 623/008, and remained in that configuration throught the official 1972 season. For the two non-champinship races at Imola and Kylami at the end of 1972, and the official 1973 season these frames were modified (wheelbase lengthened 12 cm)to 623/012 specification.

    #0886 (Chassis type 623/012) This car survives in England.

    #0888 (Chassis type 623/012) This car survives in Switzerland.

    #0890 (Chassis type 623/012) This car survives in England.

    #0892 (Chassis type 623/012) This car survives in the USA. -An elaborate 312 P(B) replica comissioned by one of the previous owners of #0892 also exists.

    #0894 (Chassis type 623/012) This chassis has had its roll hoop modified to accept a central air intake planned for 1974. This car survives in the USA.

    #0896 (Chassis type 623/012) This car survives in Switzerland

    #0898 -See chassis #0884-

    #0900 (Chassis type 623/012) This chassis has had its roll hoop modified exactly as #0894 to accept a central air intake planned for 1974. This car survives today in the USA.

    So, there were fourteen 312 P(B) chassis identities, ten of which survive today. I have tons of photographs of all of them if you are interested.

    Best,

    Michael Call
     
  11. Ferariguy3

    Ferariguy3 Formula Junior

    Apr 13, 2004
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    Im more and more impressed with knowledge that you guys have on these vintage cars and i absolutely LOVE reading history about them and learning. As someone who is 24 and is very passionate about ferrari i thought i knew a lot...turns out i know nothing..lol, on that note, id love to see the pics you have of the 312 PB's.
     
  12. Scuderia Pinguino

    Mar 21, 2006
    29
    Excellent and informed post by Michael Call.

    I think most commentators, with the exception of Alan Henry author of ‘Ferrari Flat 12’ and Anthony Pritchard author of Scarlet Fever, agree that 0874 was the chassis in which Ignazio Giunti was killed

    Christian Huet’s book entitled Ferrari 312 P/B gives detailed information on 0876, 0878 and 0880. His chronology is that 0878 was built after the destruction of 0874. This car had various knocks and bangs until it was ‘partially destroyed’ at Spa. For the Nurburgring race, a new car is built up using frame 0876 but retaining the 0878 chassis number. This car raced up to and including the non-championship race at Imola. Following Imola, the chassis damaged at Spa (0878), now repaired, was used to create a car complying with the ’72 regulations. This car was numbered 0880 and raced at Kyalami and the end of 1971. It was designated type 623/004

    The above left me puzzled as to what happened to 0876 until I found an article written by Doug Nye in Thoroughbred & Classic Car in which he states that he has a letter from the factory dated 18/1/83 that informs him that the chassis was ‘demolished on 15/1/74. I don’t know whether this means demolished as in an accident or demolished as in crushed! In any event this does conflict with Michael Call’s account.

    Any thoughts anyone?
     
  13. Michael Call

    Michael Call Formula 3
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    The above left me puzzled as to what happened to 0876 until I found an article written by Doug Nye in Thoroughbred & Classic Car in which he states that he has a letter from the factory dated 18/1/83 that informs him that the chassis was ‘demolished on 15/1/74. I don’t know whether this means demolished as in an accident or demolished as in crushed! In any event this does conflict with Michael Call’s account.

    Any thoughts anyone?

    Scuderia Pinguino,

    I am aware of the letter from Ferrari to Doug Nye dated 18/1/83. In that letter #0876 was described as "Destroyed" in a testing accident at Fiorano by Clay Regazzoni on 15/1/74. So my description of the fate of #0876 does not contradict this. I failed to mention the date, because I am not so sure it is correct -even if it is Ferrari's official story.

    Best,

    Michael Call
     
  14. Scuderia Pinguino

    Mar 21, 2006
    29
    Well.. I guess that only Doug can clarify this because his article definately states 'demolished' not 'destroyed'. He makes no mention of Regazzoni.
     
  15. Michael Call

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    Scuderia Pinguino,

    I must first begin by saying that I have tremendous respect for the work and research of both Doug Nye and Christian Huet. I must also say that is was not around in the day of the 312 P(B), but have done an enormous amount of my own reseach on the 312 P(B) in the past few years. The problem with finding information about the long ago "destroyed" or "demolished" #0876 is that nearly everyone involved with the 312 P(B) at the factory in period is either deceased or cannot remember many specific details. I have contacted Forghieri, but have had no success trying to reach Caliri.

    In my opinion, the explaination of #0876 in Christian Huet's excellent 312 P(B) book seems the most likely. On the other hand, Doug Nye (also very credible) has a letter from someone at Ferrari dated 18/1/83 that declares that #0876 was destroyed/demolished in an accident involving Clay Regazzoni on 15/1/74. I have not personally seen this letter. I am only aware of it because the existance of this letter is noted in research provided to me by Marcel Massini.

    Best,

    Michael Call
     
  16. Michael Call

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    #17 Michael Call, Mar 10, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here is a photo of 0900 taken it the Ferrari factory showroom/waiting area sometime before they sold it to Luigi Chinett Sr. It was never raced by Coco (or anyone else). It survives today exactly as it was when dispatched from the factory, with the exception of the cross-over tubes being converted from magnesium to alluminum for longevity. Note: this photo Copyright Hilary Raab, Jr.
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  17. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Here's a question. Is this chassis # an official Ferrari #. Does Ferrari recognise this car as chassis # 0900?

    Best
     
  18. Michael Call

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    This car left their hands with this # attached to it.
     
  19. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Interesting in light of David's 0900 P4 "Continuation" which David says was authorised by Enzo Ferrari.

    Best
     
  20. Michael Call

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    #21 Michael Call, Mar 10, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Napolis,

    The important distinction to be made between the two 0900s, is that The "Continuation" of David Piper was built by David Piper using authentic Ferrari componentry and a replica chassis that David Piper had made. This occured long after the original P4s were made. I suppose that David wanted one at the time, and there wasn't any available for purchase. Solution: Make you own. With the many spares available to him at the time, this was a feasible way to go and enjoy the P4 experience.

    The 312 P(B) with the chassis #0900 has a genuine chassis that was used as a "reserve" by the Scuderia Ferrari. It never saw competition, but was lengthened to 632/012 specification and had its roll hoop modified by the Scuderia exacly as on #0894 to accept a central air intake planned for the 1974 season. This 312 P(B) was supplied as a complete assembled automobile to Luigi Chinetti Sr. (see the photograph I posted of it in the factory showroom/waiting area) It is also important to remember that there was no point in a 312 P(B) "continuation" or replica when Chinetti purchased 0900 in 1977. The factory still had 312 P(B) #0888 available for sale until 1980.

    Best,

    Michael Call

    Attached are photos of the two 0900 chassis markings (The black one is from the Piper P4 / The brass one is from the Chinetti P(B) Photos copyright Marcel Massini
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  21. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Very interesting. Also interesting Engine Tipo in David's car...
     
  22. Michael Call

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    #23 Michael Call, Mar 10, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  23. Michael Call

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    #24 Michael Call, Mar 10, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  24. Michael Call

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    #25 Michael Call, Mar 10, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here is a photo of 0884 at the 1972 Targa Florio. This is the car that has belonged since the mid 70's to Pierre Bardinon. It was featured in the "Victory by Design" special on Speed. Photo copyright Marcel Massini collection
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