312 PB - how many?

Michael Call, thank you for taking the time to put the "B" in "PB" in parentheses, as it has been widely misconstrued that the official name of the 312 P is the 312 PB. Also, thanks for all the pictures; this has been a very enlightening thread.

 

Hi

Ironically, I was asking the same question last week. He was pretty active for a fairly short time and then seemed to have disappeared. Will let you know if anything interesting turns up

 

What an interesting thread. In period we certainly referred to the flat-12 cars as 312Ps although the 'PB' suffix became useage to differentiate these flat-12s from the 1969 312P V12s. I reported many of the races in which these cars excelled, but for me - as for much of the collectors' car market today - these things never inherited the appeal of the 'craftsman'-bodied P cars which preceded them. The values accorded to the P2-3-4 family cars today - plus the 312P V12s - commonly outweigh those attached to the 'PB's. This seems to be linked specifically to the laws of aerodynamics since the 'PB's so closely resemble the humble and similarly slabby Lolas, Chevrons and Abarths created to meet similar regulations and to meet the same laws of physics.

When it comes to the letter from Ferrari relating to the fate of '0876' I now have only the vaguest recollection of the item - the word used was 'demolito' I think, but there was no mention of Regga nor of Fiorano as the site of an accident.

I do remember that I ballsed-up the story I wrote on the cars for 'Classic & Sportscar' - our belief at the time was that the luckless 1971 prototype car which seemed to get bent every time it raced could not possibly have been repaired after each incident in time for the next race. That is what Caliri told me at the time. I believe Forghieri's account was different, that the self-same car was in fact rebuilt and returned to service (this is the replacement car after Giunti's tragic accident - no rebuilding that baby).

Regarding '0900' - this is in effect a '00' number - zero - niente - nothing - since it includes no individual even-number within its two final digits. Pipes was 'smiled upon' by The Old Man to produce his P4 replica which took this number - it was also duplicated and applied on the paperwork to cover the Crepaldi/Chinetti 'PB'. The factory it would appear now deny any involvement with the Chinetti car, and any knowledge of it. This seems to be for reasons of the present hierarchy's own devising, since both the paperwork and photographic records provide evidence of factory involvement in this extra 'PB' in period.

One way and another, the present hierarchy at Maranello has many questions to answer regarding its attitudes to, and its manipulations related to, their company's own competition car history. The apparatchiks there conveniently fail to recognise or choose to dismiss the huge reservoir of painstaking research and knowledge accumulated over many, many years by enthusiasts, collectors and restorers completely independent of the company.

They also seem to ignore the reality that their predecessors at Maranello shared many records and much information with enthusiasts and researchers right from the 1950s to the 1990s...

Out there - the present incumbents ought to realise - lies a ticking time bomb.

DCN

 

PS - Another Doug screw-up - the dangers of responding to Internet threads late at night - the magazine I refer to above should have been 'Thoroughbred & Classic Cars', NOT 'Classic & Sportscar' - as correctly quoted elsewhere. Sorry.

DCN

 

Which chassis number won Sebring in '72? And where is it now?

I was at Sebring that year with my dad as a 13 year old.

 

That would have been 0882 with Ickx and Andretti

It is now in a collection in Germany

 

Here are some pics my father took that day..
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Here are some photos of the 623/012 chassis #0892 being re-skinned. This is a rare glimpse of a 312 P(B) chassis with the alluminum skin removed. Enjoy!

Photos Copyright Michael Call Collection
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Great thread and once I again I marvel at the knowledge of members of this forum, a truly great thread for newbies like me...

 

Thank you, Michael. Great information and pics. My all time favorite car.

 

Excellent photo's and as you say 'a rare glimpse'. I have only seen one other chassis with it's clothes off. Judging from the number of tubes without rivet holes and the box of tubes, they must have replaced a good number of tubes on 0892.

I had lunch with an old friend today and we got on to the subject of 312P's. In 1974, he worked as a mechanic for Maranello Concessionaires in UK. He well remembers 0880 languishing for months at the back of the showroom with a price of £8,500 !!! on it and no takers!

He also told me about the day that one salesman and one of the testers aided by a couple of mechanics decided to fire it up. After flattening a couple of batteries and having not succeeded to get it fire, they towed it half way around Egham, all to no avail. Despite the talent at Maranello Concessionaires, none of them had any experience of Lucas fuel injection. It took a local race mechanic with the right knowledge to turn up with a 'squeezy bottle' of fuel, turn the fuel cam to 'R' and away it went!!!

 

Here are some more recent photos of #0892. It is all coming back together, and should be a star attraction at Monterey 08'. Note: The inside of the body of #0892 was painted black at some point. The inside of these panels were originally red in period. Images Copyright TSR Racing
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Interest in this promising thread seems to have waned but Richard Bond has confirmed that on this occasion he was ‘not’ the driver in this pic. Most likely the driver is Louis Lorenzini.

0880 was entered in the July 1976 AMOC meeting at Silverstone by Michael Vernon for Lorenzini to drive. He came 2nd to Michael Lee (relation of Willie Green) driving the JCB 512. Lorenzini drove the car again at Silverstone in March 1977 when he won an Intermarque Race. The car is probably exiting Copse corner.

0880 also appeared again at Silverstone at a parade during the 1979 British GP. See attached link for pic.
http://s271.photobucket.com/albums/...%20Racing/1979/ Click on British GP – Silverstone. Page 3.

Colin Pool

 

As most people know, there was an elaborate replica of 312 P(B) #0892 constructed on behalf of Joe Galdi by John Hajduk while Hajduk was restoring the original #0892. Galdi used this replica in place of the original #0892 in vintage events, as he wanted to preserve the original as much as possible. The original #0892 and the replica were sold as a pair to Germany about seven years ago. Both cars returned to the USA about two years ago, but have since been split up. I just noticed that the replica is now being offered for sale at a used exotic car dealership in Denver. Here are some current photos of the REPLICA:
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0890 being restored at sport auto modena oct.2002
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Nice photo of #0890 from 2002. As we all know, Diena & Silingardi's Sport Auto Modena restored all of the 623/012 chassis on behalf of the factory before they were sold off to collectors from 1974-1980. Does anyone have any old photos of Sport Auto Modena from the 70's??

 

Replica, Recreation, Bitza, Whatever it looks pretty good from the photo's. I have seen some other photo's of the car and sadly it uses big CV joints, modern AP calipers and a few other detail things that are quite easy to rectify. John Hadjuk told me that he had trouble getting front wheels and so they made these ones from a solid billet. Incredible. Engine is F1 spec and apparently ex-Lauda.

Colin Pool

 

I recently saw the car a couple of weeks ago and had my doubts that it was the actually one. Thanks for the confirming information!

 

Anyone know the current price of the car???

 

The car is at Motorsports Gallery Denver. The last time I spoke to them they were looking for US $1,600,000. A VERY expensive replica if you ask me.

 

Wow!!!!! I was offered it less than 6 months ago at $450,000. Difficult to say what it is worth. Worst way is the value of the original component parts. Best way is nowhere near this price. (in my opinion)

 

AGREED. I am told that these guys paid a substantial price for this car. I think it may be an educational experience. Just at a glance I noticed that the tub has holes drilled for the reserve fuel lever and driver's side fuel accumulator tank, but neither of these items appear to be present. I also noticed that the interior is covered in incorrect fabric. The real 0892 interior was also covered in this incorrect fabric until it's most recent resoration. I have more of the correct fabric if anyone is interested.

 

Interesting you mention the seat cloth. It looked very wrong to me too but I put it down to the photograph. As you know, it's a fairly 'busy' weave and appears to change patten according to the angle of view.

I looked at the website and it is being described as '1972' and 'full history'. 6 months ago it was being offered by John Hadjuk and his son and there was no question of it being offered as anything but a replica. I wonder if there was an intermediate owner in the past few months or what other explanation there can be.

I never saw the car when it was in Europe with 0892 and at events like the Goodwood Festival of Speed, the real car appeared. I am told that the Factory wanted it 'out' of Germany which is probably why it went back to its creator.

I have absolutely no problem with replicas so long as they are not passed off as the real thing. This one apart from detail stuff mentioned earlier looks pretty good and it is not an easy car to replicate properly. Have you any other stuff for sale?

 

YES. A fairly reliable source told me there was an intermediate owner who made a pretty good lick on this one. This intermediate owner might have misled the current owner/vendor of the car as to it's value and authentecity.... (or lack thereof) Don't get me wrong, I can't imagine a cooler replica, but at the end of the day it is a REPLICA.

I only have the correct fabric for the 312 and 512 sports racers to sell.

 

The cloth is always in demand. Some friends are restoring a 512S and they need some, at least they did a month ago. I will mention it to them. Price per metre? Send private message if you prefer.