312Pb

POINT TAKEN.

 

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=140646696&postcount=42

 

Back on topic...

Mr. Call, is 0900 being offered or is it not currently for sale?

Just curious.

Thanks,

CW

 

0900 is not offered for sale. The elaborate replica of 0892 "312-r" is in Denver and IS for sale. I think this is where the thread started. The fact that both cars live near one another is the only reason that I could imagine them being confused.

 

Thank you.

Yes, I understood the denver car is on offer. I was just asking about 0900, because it hadn't been mentioned anywhere. Sorry if I created any confusion amongst the two.

Fun to see these things run in the flesh. I spent some time going over 0886 when it was with Modena Motorsport. Just a fun little car. I may take a spin down to Denver to have a look at the replica, but it'll never sell at $900K. NEVER. They've had it on offer at the motorsports gallery for an awfully long time. Maybe they'd be open to offers, but the question is what you've got and what you can do with it once you've bought it.

While certainly eligible for HSR (less discriminating in their entries?), I'm wondering if LoM would accept it. And, recently, I've been hearing that SpA/FNA is getting VERY aggressive about denying replicas FIA technical passport applications (not that that's an SpA/FNA-run body) and even going so far as to seize these replicas. Getting trickier and trickier to buy these things with confidence. So, at best, this may possibly be just a parts car. Certainly not ever eligible for Classiche in anyone's wildest dreams, either.

CW

 

I was told by a reasonably reliable source that the current owner if the replica in Denver paid MORE than the "excessive" price... The problem is that as a "parts" car, very few of the parts are authentic P(B) items. Most pieces are paterned (probably at considerable expense)after those that were being reconditioned on 0892 two restorations ago. While I am fairly certain that the replica bits that comprise most of that car are of higher quality than than authentic items made my Ferrari in period, I know that they won't fool anyone who REALLY knows what they are looking at. Still say it looks like fun though...

 

No doubt. But, for $900K, there are other REAL cars available. IMHO, if the owner ever wants to sell it, they're going to have to take a dose of reality. $200K sells it. Maybe.

CW

 

It is no secret that the replica 312 was for sale by it's maker (John Hajduk) maybe five years ago for something like $500K. Seeing as to how all 312 P(B)s are in VERY STONG hands, this car may be the only opportunity for someone to even approximately experience the brilliance of one of these cars. I think that there is way more than $200,000 worth of fun that they are offering. Besides, if you pile that thing up you won't have a bunch of crazy 312 P(B) fans to answer to

 

It's only worth what someone will pay for it. If there's a buyer at >$200K, that's good for the seller, but I wouldn't engage in a competitive bidding situation with them. This is because I'd only be willing to pay $200K for it, which is a random number. It's worth that sum to me, because it would be a fun track car. That's all. I doubt I could run it in any of the "big" events (Le Mans Classic, Monterey Historics, etc.), so its utility is limited. I'd also have to build a spares package to do any serious tracking (motor, transmission, wheels, suspension bits, etc.), which, if authentic 312P(B) parts, could end up being FAR more valuable and expensive than this particular replica itself.

But, for $200K, I can also buy a lot of real cars with provenance as opposed to a replica. They may not be 312P(B)s, but they will certainly be good fun.

CW

 

I am quite sure that someone (WITH A LOT LESS EXPERIENCE THAN YOU!!!)will pay way more than $200K for it. Many of the parts of this replica are authentic Ferrari bits, just F1 and NOT P(B)... While I am not a fan of replicas, I think that this one is an exception because it is reasonably well executed, and no "lesser" Ferrari was canabalized to create it. I do however think it is wrong (AND IRRESPONSIBLE)for the seller to suggest the the chassis of "312-R" is somehow "authentic". I agree that there are a lot of WAY COOL (AND GENUINE) cars to have loads of fun with at the track for <$200K

 

I have to admit that I do like the 312T available at Tillack, though. $1.25MM asking is probably fair, but steep. Interestingly, the prices of the "blue chip" cars really haven't come off much at all. I thought there would be more buying opportunities in this environment due to financial difficulties. I have certainly seen some cars sold off, but the prices have all been strong and haven't been distressed. I can accept that with the truly desirable and rare cars, that may always be the case, but with cars that aren't as "desirable" for one reason or another, I had expected more discounting.

In particular, I keep my eyes open for 333s. I've noticed several change hands recently at reduced pricing, but nothing that yet makes sense to me. And, there is one currently on the market at such a premium that it's just never going to sell at that price. I guess how reasonable the pricing will be depends on how desperate the seller is.

CW

 

The car at Tillack's is a "B3", and not a "T". Sorry for being so pedantic...

 

You're correct. My mistake.

Either way, though, it's a pretty nice looking car.

CW

 

"pretty nice"? I say WAY NICE!!!!

 

Very slightly off topic, This was posted on Ferrari's official facebook page today (you may need an FB login). Call me dumb but the picture IS a 1971 312PB not the 1969 312P that the description says!

http://www.facebook.com/Ferrari/posts/310285252315716

 

Any pictures of the 'Diena & Silingardi's Sport Auto Modena'-workshop?

Gr. Martin

 

Here's a photo of Gianni Diena and Aldo Silingardi's workshop Sport Auto in Modena, taken October 1975.

COPYRIGHT MARCEL MASSINI
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Grazie Marcel! This is how it looks today:

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Now back to 312's

Gr. Martin

 

Thank you Marcel for continuing to share your vast resources of technical and 'visual' knowledge!
CH

 

OK then. Here's another one also taken October 1975 at Diena & Silingardi's. There is a 312 P(B) on the left.

COPYRIGHT MARCEL MASSINI
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Another one... Inside the shop in 1988.
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Here is another photo taken at Sport Auto Modena. The man facing the camera is Gianni Diena. The 312 P(B) in this photo is the 0900 that has been the subject of much discussion on this thread. This photo was taken in February, 1977 (TEN months before Chinetti bought it) So again, 0900 was clearly a COMPLETE and ASSEMBLED car well before it became the property of Luigi Chinetti, Sr. and NOT built "by and for Chinetti" as has been suggested earlier. (PHOTO COPYRIGHT MARCEL MASSINI)
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Not even. It's a 1972 312PB.