Forza adjustable timing system | FerrariChat

Forza adjustable timing system

Discussion in '308/328' started by FasterIsBetter, Feb 16, 2011.

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  1. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

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    #1 FasterIsBetter, Feb 16, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
    I was checking out Nick Forza's website on his radiators, and happened to scroll to the bottom of his page and saw what looks like a very interesting adjustable timing system using a single timing belt for both banks.

    http://www.nicksforzaferrari.com/forzaferrariwebsite1_002.htm

    (scroll to the last item on the page)

    It looks really interesting, from a number of points of view, not the least of which is that he says the recommended belt and tensioner replacement interval is 9 years or 60,000 miles. Now that, alone, makes this worth considering.

    So, has anyone installed this set-up in a 3x8, and how did it go? Was it an easy installation? How does it run? Any issues? Please share your experience.

    Thanks,
    Steve
     
  2. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    It's a totally different belt used as well......a few Fchatters have tried it.

    Verrell maybe???
     
  3. Chef

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  4. Badman

    Badman Formula 3

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    #4 Badman, Feb 16, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
    Pizzaman has the Hill Engineering stuff, no??
     
  5. D.Mauro

    D.Mauro Formula 3

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  6. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    #6 fastradio, Feb 17, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I recently did this installation on the Pizzaman's engine. Although I will not comment on the belt change interval stated, I will say that the quality of materials used and fitment is first rate. Installation is very straightforward, as well. The kit was designed and manufactured by Scott McGee, who clearly put a lot of thought into the design and materials used. The variable cam timing feature, via the adjustable pulleys is a nice touch. Our intention this weekend, is to dial the cams in to the Pizzaman's specs and to have the cam timing offset on the pulleys to be zero. In that the specs will be known, this will enable the Pizzaman to advance or retard his cams wherever he want, without having to go through the degree wheel set-up again.

    Correct, the belt tensioner bearings are the latest innovation from HE. They appear to be very high quality pieces, although time will tell just how many miles they'll go.
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  7. Badman

    Badman Formula 3

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    Ok, now I'm entirely confused. The kit listed on Nick Forza's page look like it has a single belt, while the HE setup is with the standard two belt setup. So the setup put on Pizzaman's engine is not the same as what is shown on the Nick Forza website, or am I missing something?
     
  8. BDCVG

    BDCVG Formula Junior

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    If You look close at the Forza pic, I think the waterpump pulley blocks the veiw giving the appearance of a single belt.
     
  9. Badman

    Badman Formula 3

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    Ok, I could buy that. :D
     
  10. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    Exactly....
     
  11. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

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    After looking at the pictures of Pizzaman's engine, it became apparent to me that the pulley in Forza's picture make it look like a single belt, when, in fact, it is still two separate belts.

    I love those belts!! They somehow just look beefier than the regular belts. Would those belts work with the existing 3x8 setup? Between Hill's tensioner bearing and those super-beefy belts, that might be the answer to extending the 3 yr./15 miles belt change interval.
     
  12. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    Nope...the "teeth" on the pulleys are of a different design than the stock ones, hence the belts are not interchangeable.
     
  13. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

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    Ahhhhh..... No wonder there has not been a huge rush to switch to those belts. So, I take it, to use those belts you must change not only the cam pulleys, but the drive pulley as well. Can you use the stock size tensioner, like the new Hill design, or do you need a special larger tensioner unit? Just curious. And will the stock belt covers work without interference?
     
  14. 350HPMondial

    350HPMondial F1 Veteran
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    I have the system, and I will find out soon.
    ;)

    Edwardo
     
  15. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    Yes...everything needs to be changed, although a stock (HE tensioner bearing in this case) tensioner bearing is used. I don't have the covers handy, but wouldn't expect any clearance issues.
     
  16. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

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    Very cool!! Can't wait to see the video of the engine running!!! <Grin>
     
  17. pdf308

    pdf308 Formula Junior

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    Thanks, I think that this looks interesting and don't understand why everyone wouldn't do it. Look forward to hearing the outcome
     
  18. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    "Thanks, I think that this looks interesting and don't understand why everyone wouldn't do it. "

    I have the opposite reaction. What possible use is adjustable timing in the REAL world of a street-driven car? I see no benefit at all unless the car is used in competition and you are needing to adjust for different cams/tracks, whatever

    As far as changing the cam belt change interval - what's the "guarantee" that you can actually do that? IOW, if your engine detonates at 6 years due to a broken/torn/stripped belt is Forza going to cover the damage? Of course not. So what has a better system actually done for you (other than look cool)?

    I'm sure that the parts are top notch but I am simply asking this question, if you install the system will you really NOT replace the belts/bearings for 9 years (assuming you don't hit 60k miles before that)? If so, it may be worth it; if not, it's just engine jewelry.

    I've always been suspicious of new products claiming to last far longer than they've been around to see if they will actually last that long. Ferrari 328 owners manual said the belts had to be changed at 56k miles but they then revised it after they gained experience...
     
  19. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    My thoughts: This is a very well thought out system that uses a modern belt design. This in itself is a big plus, as belt life should be extended to be comparable to today's cars. The weak link remains with the tensioner bearings, although with this engine we used the latest Hill Engineering bearings which appear to be of a much better design than OE. The machine work and materials used is top notch. The fitments of the lower cam drive pulleys on the timing case was just "perfect!"

    Things to consider: This is not an inexpensive set-up as all of the gears need to be changed to use the modern belt. Removing/installing the ring nuts on the lower timing case gears without a proper tool can lead to disaster...

    Regarding the adjustable pulleys: This is a big plus and time saver when it comes to degreeing the cams. You can get the cam timing spot on, without screwing with the drive pins and pulley locations. If the engine were set-up on a dyno, the cam timing adjustability is a nice plus...otherwise of little value on a street car.

    I make no personal claim or endorsement that this will last longer than stock...although I suspect it will.

    David
     
  20. ckracing

    ckracing Formula Junior

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    I like the idea of a better 308 Timing belt system. I think Nick should consider making 2 types of kits.

    Kit#2 would use new style non adjustable cam shaft pulleys.

    This should also reduce the price a little.

    First question is: How much are the new style timing belts?

    Second question: What happens if Nick decides he no longer wants to be in the Ferrari business, where would you buy replacement pulleys and his style of timing belt?

    Charles
     
  21. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

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    The belts aren't crazy money, I think I paid $48 each thru Amazon.

    You won't need to buy replacement pullie again. It's a one time thing.

    Unless someone steels them, then that's another story,
     
  22. AMA328

    AMA328 F1 Rookie

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    Wow, this is pretty cool. Just went on my must-do-when-$$$ list.

    Thanks for the tip.
     
  23. AZDoug

    AZDoug Formula 3

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    I would suspect it is an ordinary off the shelf belt, but I may be wrong. At least if I was doing something like this, i would try to use readily available belts.

    Doug
     
  24. AZDoug

    AZDoug Formula 3

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    BTW, though I would not put this system on just to put it on, I would very strongly consider using it when I get around to changing my cam drive pulley bearing sometime next year.

    Doug
     
  25. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    for the 2V's the belt is an off the shelf belt by Gates, common to the Mitsubishi Evo. The belt should be available for yrs to come, Gates even when one step further and has mfg a racing version in red or blue.

    For the QV setup I had a custom belt spec'd by Gates which is used also for other unnamed sources. It's actually a better belt than the stock auto one, it'd be comparable to the racing version. it's oil and fuel resistance is better than the auto version.

    The belts will always be available and can be purchased thru any of gates suppliers, NAPA being one of the easiest.

    Looks like I need to have more pullies mfg again.
     

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