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328: 4 cylinders missing suddenly

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by flyingboa, Jul 29, 2006.

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  1. flyingboa

    flyingboa Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2003
    1,564
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Eugenio Dalla Rosa
    #1 flyingboa, Jul 29, 2006
    Here is the all story. Coming back from the Tuscany Rally (see Europe section) I had to change the clutch on my car. Apart from that, everything was perfect.
    Job done, together with some minor activities. I drive the car back home and everything is perfect. At home i wash the car without covering the engine with the usual plastic sheet, then I recover her into the garage
    Next morning I start the car, bring her out of the garage and, while I am closing the gate (car idling), one bank dies suddenly.
    The engine still idles, but only on four. I drive for a while, then shut off the engine and start it again: 8 cyl. work. Traffic light, idle, again a bank goes off. Shut down, start it again, 8 cyl.
    Back at home I call my mechanic. He comes to see the little one, we try everything but no misfire whatsoever.
    I drove again yesterday and, even if less frequently, misfire happens again.
    Any ideas?
    Apart from this, the car runs like a dream.
    Ciao
    Eugenio
     
  2. flyingboa

    flyingboa Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2003
    1,564
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Eugenio Dalla Rosa
    #2 flyingboa, Jul 30, 2006
    Bump
     
  3. Mark 328

    Mark 328 Formula Junior

    Nov 6, 2003
    510
    Orange, Ca
    Full Name:
    Mark Foley
    #3 Mark 328, Jul 30, 2006
    Eugenio:

    It probably is in the dampness in the coil area because the water drains right on top of the coils and they are pretty finicky about having a good connection.
    You may want to try pulling the plugs on top of the coils (for the power module packs) off and drying them out with a heat gun or hair dryer. (See parts manual TAV 52, #11) If you can't get any heat there leave the plugs-off for a day or two and see what happens. Be sure to mark the plugs to the coil before you unplug them. If you don't disassemble & dry-out the moisture will keep coming back--the same thing happens to the sparkplug extenders.
    FWIW, I hardly ever wash my black 328--I use quick detailer and it works great.

    Keep us posted and good luck.

    Mark
     
  4. flyingboa

    flyingboa Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2003
    1,564
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Eugenio Dalla Rosa
    #4 flyingboa, Aug 26, 2006
    I resurrect this thread to give an update. I cleaned and dried all contacts in the engine area and the car was OK for quite a while.
    Yesterday it did it again. At idle, when for whatever reason the engine goes below 8000 RPM (usually starting), 4 cylinder missed. No way they start again unless engine is switched off and then turned on again.
    No Ideas?
    Ciao
    Eugenio
     
  5. Philjay50

    Philjay50 Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2003
    595
    Chester, England
    Full Name:
    Philip
    #5 Philjay50, Aug 26, 2006
    I can only share the experience I had with my 84 QV mondial, this car is fitted with two Digiplex ignition units. One of the flywheel sensors failed, funnily enough, it started to happen just after I washed it. The car would start OK and run fine, then just shut down on one bank. The answer, change the flywheel sensors.
     
  6. mad dog

    mad dog Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2006
    875
    suffolk uk
    Full Name:
    andrew
    #6 mad dog, Aug 26, 2006
    If it is all 4 then I think it is usually a sensor or the digi unit itself. I have had both. Like you after a clutch change I had a sensor connection dodgy. I messed the leads to the sensors by moving them around to get out of way. I now have the connectors taped up and sensors pushed in securely.

    I have also had he connector to the digi unit come loose. Mind you this was after considerable abuse over rumble strips at Silverstone GP circuit. Took a while to find that one as looked OK but needed a push back in. Needless to say now taped up more securely!
     
  7. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 27, 2003
    71,700
    MidTN
    Full Name:
    DGS
    #7 DGS, Aug 26, 2006
    If the native variety of the 328 is like the US model, there are just the two sensors: RPM and TDC, driving the one Marelli Multiplex for all eight cylinders via two coils.

    The only thing shared by four cylinders is the coil (and its amplifier module). Odds are that one of the coil amp modules is getting old and sickly. (I know how it feels. ;))

    Your model may vary.
     
  8. flyingboa

    flyingboa Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2003
    1,564
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Eugenio Dalla Rosa
    #8 flyingboa, Aug 26, 2006
    Thanks all for the suggestions. My car is a 86 euro model. Initially I cleaned only the connections of the cable coils distributors (38 & 39 table 52) on the coil side. Today I cleaned even the power module coil connectors as suggested by Mark (shame on me, I did not do it the first time...) and now the car is fine.
    The strange thing is the failure mode. OK, then fail, no way out other than switch off and then re start the engine.
    Should I expect it to go worse? :(
    Ciao
    Eugenio
     
  9. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    15,109
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tom Spiro
    #9 spirot, Aug 26, 2006
    I had a similar problem in my old 308... once it was a cracked wiring connector, the other time it was a faulty coil wire.. if you just washed the car perhaps it could have made the coil wire crack or short, probabbly un likely ... I would check the connections in the right hand rear compartment under the trunk... there is a relay that is prone to falling out and or cracking some of the wires... when it misses again I would test it then... that way you can see what is actually making the engine go bact to 8 cyl...

    I would not touch the coil while the engine is running ... EVER... Bad IDEA Alto Tensione!

    Tom
     
  10. wolftalk

    wolftalk Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2004
    367
    san franciso area
    Full Name:
    phil
    #10 wolftalk, Aug 27, 2006
    you're probably ok. Hard to say exactly what was going on in the connector...could have been heat related due to poor contact, or something like a capacitive coupling problem that built up over time and only discharged when the power was removed.

    if you have the problem again, just swap the module plugs to see if the issue moves to the other bank. That'll prove for sure if it's the module itself, rather than the harness or any of the other primary/secondary wires.

    just to be clear, on the 328 is perfectly ok to swap the ignition module plugs between the two modules without swapping any other primary/secondary wires. The modules are only attached to the coil frames for heat sink purposes...all electrical connections happen through the module plugs.

    The module itself is marelli BKL-3BA. It crosses to a couple other manufacturers which I didn't have much luck finding, but parts houses like GT parts and maranello/rutlands sell just the module. Ferrari only sold the entire coil with module.
     

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