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328 burnt plug lead major oil loss

Discussion in '308/328' started by Gloria Giulio, Sep 15, 2014.

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  1. Gloria Giulio

    Gloria Giulio Karting

    Jun 6, 2013
    143
    #1 Gloria Giulio, Sep 15, 2014
    Had a disaster on the autoroute yesterday smoke pouring from rear. Pulled off the road at next exit and opened engine compartment to find far right front plug lead on fire. I waved the extinguisher at it but it went out before I needed to use it. No obvious sign of oil loss at this stage and all the temperatures had been fine oil 100C and water 80C. Waited for around 40 minutes for breakdown truck and when I started her up to load her on the truck she left a trail of oil. It looks as if she was pumping out oil when the motor was turning but not when off. However the exhaust appeared clean with no smoke. The car had an oil change and replacement of gearbox/engine seals one week earlier which may be relavent. Previous oil was 5W40 and now 10W30. I am still waiting for the car to come home. Nothing happens in France on Sundays. Any suggestions about what to look for welcome.

    GG
     
  2. ClydeM

    ClydeM F1 World Champ
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    Nov 4, 2003
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    Clyde E. McMurdy
    #2 ClydeM, Sep 15, 2014
    Try the simple things first : what's the condition of the oil filter? Blown? Loose?
    then try & trace where the oil is coming from at the seals. You'll probably have to clean it down first.
    Then start looking at the oil cooler lines. Perhaps they ruptured.

    Glad to hear it wasn't a significant engine fire.
     
  3. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
    5,401
    Ahwatukee, AZ
    #3 PV Dirk, Sep 15, 2014
    If that much oil is coming out it should be readily apparent. Looking forward to hearing what you find. I hope it is something simple and inexpensive.
     
  4. Blackandbluedino

    Blackandbluedino Karting

    Apr 16, 2013
    125
    Newport News VA
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    Thomas Gonnella
    #4 Blackandbluedino, Sep 15, 2014
    Check the oil filter for a hole, the plug lead may have arced against the filter and blown a hole through the thin metal...
     
  5. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    #5 robertgarven, Sep 15, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  6. Robz328

    Robz328 F1 Veteran
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    #6 Robz328, Sep 15, 2014
    Clean and find leak ASAP.

    Drain the oil and let's see what's in it.

    Too much may come out, indicating shift-shaft seal problem (mixing gear oil and reg oil).

    Replace filter with new UFI or Baldwin.

    "far right front plug lead on fire" as in Cyl#8??? Doesn't seem to point to oil issue; could be fuel.
     
  7. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
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    Mike 996
    #7 mike996, Sep 15, 2014
    Seems easy enough to locate - check there is a decent amount of oil in engine, leave hood open, start motor and observe... ;)
     
  8. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
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    Northeast, PA - USA
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    Wayne Martin
    #8 waymar, Sep 15, 2014
    "Far right corner" - this is where the oil dip stick is mounted on my 308 2v - check if the connection to the block is firm at the base of the dip stick - oil could splash on to hot exhaust.
     
  9. Gloria Giulio

    Gloria Giulio Karting

    Jun 6, 2013
    143
    #9 Gloria Giulio, Sep 16, 2014
    We have foumd the problem. Oil is pouring from the oil cooler. Why? Would a change from Castrol 5w40 to Mobil 15w50 have any effect (sorry I remembered the wrong oil in my original post). Is it possible or advisable to repair the cooler? I have found a second hand replacent from a car that has been converted for racing but it seems difficult to find new replacements in uk and france.

    Thanks for all the advice.

    GG
     
  10. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

    Sep 27, 2007
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    #10 TonyL, Sep 16, 2014
  11. jessup

    jessup Formula Junior

    Apr 26, 2014
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    Santa Clara CA USA
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    Jessup
    #11 jessup, Sep 16, 2014
    If the cooler was border line before, the thicker oil/ raise in oil pressure may have finished it off.
     
  12. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2002
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    Robert Garven
    #12 robertgarven, Sep 16, 2014
    GT car parts in Arizona has brand-new ones. I'm not sure if they're the same as the 308 but I assume they are


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 VIZSLA, Sep 16, 2014
    Was it you who had a similar failure recently?
     
  14. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    #14 yelcab, Sep 16, 2014
    The oil cooler is prone to leaking if the person in there before tried to tighten the hoses without using a counter hold. It will leak.
     
  15. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #15 Rifledriver, Sep 16, 2014
    Even with a counter hold. They are not real strong and the hose fittings are always very tight.
     
  16. Gloria Giulio

    Gloria Giulio Karting

    Jun 6, 2013
    143
    #16 Gloria Giulio, Sep 16, 2014
    Superformance list coolers but do not have any and cannot get any. Apparently Ferrari uk have none. I have not been able to check the Arizona site yet.

    Change in oil pressure as cause sounds plausible. Thanks.

    GG
     
  17. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    #17 robertgarven, Sep 16, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Friends,

    Yes mine broke near the lower fitting. I found an aircraft company that a fixes oil coolers and even though they were not sure they could fix it they did. I also bought an extra one at GT. It does not fit in the GT4 original housing. I think it was made for the regular 308 but modified one to fit if in the future. I always used two wrenches. I do remember buying one of the largest wrenches I ever hd for one of the fittings! I caught it in time as I noticed my oil pressure gauge acting erratically. I am always checking inside my engine compartment and working on the car but was still lucky who knows what could have happened if I had not caught it early. here are a few more pics. Notice the one from GT has some more reinforcement on the edges. I was told I got the last top hose made not sure thats true but they are hard to come by. No matter what anyone tells you when the fittings start to rotate the hose is toast! Also a photo of my cooler leaking if anyone want the name of the company you can PM me. I would have used the new one if it had fit the GT4 housing better.

    Rob
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  18. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
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    #18 nerofer, Sep 17, 2014
    I'm not knowledgeable enough in mechanical matters to give any advice worth something.
    But I am surprised by the temperatures you have recorded on the highway; on both my euro '89 cars, on the highway at continuous stabilised legal speed, which is 125 km/h indicated (5 km/h less than what is allowed, just in case) I have never recorded above 75° c for oil (And I have usually slightly less than 70° for water).
    I just can't understand how you can get 100°c for oil temp on "stabilised speed" on an autoroute.
    I run 5W40 and the two cars do not have any leaks, nor do they burn oil, so no need to top-off. Personally, but this is only my point of view, I don't see any need to go to an oil as thick as 15W50, unless you have some small leaks that you do not want to fix?

    Rgds
     
  19. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

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    #19 nerofer, Sep 17, 2014
  20. Gloria Giulio

    Gloria Giulio Karting

    Jun 6, 2013
    143
    #20 Gloria Giulio, Sep 17, 2014
    Temperature on the autoroute is probably close to 70C for water. The oil temperature would probably normally be around 75 - 80 but the engine was running hot before the failure. I put this down to an ht lead which had come loose and was touching the engine. This seems to cause a problem with one bank of the motor. I have seen this before with a burnt plug lead. This time it burst into flames. I dont know if this precipitated the oil cooler failure but they may be linked. Regarding 15w50, I am taking the advice of my garagist. I'll try the two sites.

    Thanks GG.
     
  21. Gloria Giulio

    Gloria Giulio Karting

    Jun 6, 2013
    143
    #21 Gloria Giulio, Sep 21, 2014
    I have had a replacement oil cooler fitted but the car is still loosing oil so it will go back to the mechanic tomorrow. Two front bank plug leads were burnt and have been replaced but now the motor runs very poorly with major loss of power and after a while some backfiring too. The oil was leaking from the bottom of the cooler. Is there anywhere obvious it might have got to affect ignition?

    GG
     
  22. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    #22 mike996, Sep 21, 2014
    The oil pressure in the system will never exceed the max pressure of the oil pump relief valve, regardless of what viscosity oil is used. IOW, if the relief valve pressure is 85PSI, then that's the maximum oil pressure that can be in the system regardless of RPM or oil viscosity.

    So the idea that 50 wt oil produces more pressure than 30 wt oil is only true UP TO the RPM where the relief valve lifts. What I'm saying is that the maximum pressure is determined by the relief valve setting, NOT the type of oil used. Changing the oil to a different viscosity has absolutely no affect on the max pressure developed in the system.

    If it ruptured shortly after the oil change, I'd say it was just a coincidence unless someone was actually wrenching on the oil cooler as part of that "service."
     
  23. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    #23 yelcab, Sep 21, 2014
    Is this a Ferrari mechanic you are seeing?
    If not, you need a new mechanic.
     
  24. Gloria Giulio

    Gloria Giulio Karting

    Jun 6, 2013
    143
    #24 Gloria Giulio, Sep 21, 2014
    He is supposedly a Ferrari mechanic and has done good work up to now but I am beginning to wonder if he is out of his depth. He is old school and appears to understand the cars but I don't intend to leave her with him if he cannot solve this in the next two days.

    GG
     
  25. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    3,024
    #25 2dinos, Sep 22, 2014
    FWIW:

    My GT4 had the oil cooler develop a leak without warning, or even any servicing (oil change etc). One day, I took her out for a drive, and noticed smoke, and found a small leak. Fortunately I obtained a factory cooler, and replaced both hoses to be safe.

    On a 308 injected, there's ignition pickups on the bell housing which are generally underneath the oil cooler. I've seen poor running performance occur when water got into the wells where the pickups mount.

    Wish you success getting her back on the road quickly!
     

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