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328 cold start disconnect query

Discussion in '308/328' started by Ballie64, May 1, 2021.

  1. Ballie64

    Ballie64 Rookie

    Apr 24, 2021
    40
    UK
    Full Name:
    Simon Ball
    Recently purchased a beautiful 328 GTS it seems to run fine but I just noticed a connection has been unplugged and cable tied out of the way! I assume it's the cold start?

    Is this something people do for a reason maybe ecu update or something and thoughts appreciated. Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  3. conan

    conan Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2011
    368
    Maybe the cold start sensor on the top of the block is stuck closed ?
     
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  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    20,303
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    Steve Magnusson
    #3 Steve Magnusson, May 1, 2021
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
    +1 -- Although in the F literature, it's called the "Thermo-time Switch (TTS)". OP -- measure the voltage between the two terminal in the unplugged harness connector. Should only be +12V during the first second, or two, of starter motor cranking to "squirt" the cold start injector (the unplugged thing). If it's constant +12V during engine running = definite sign the Thermo-time Switch needs examination/replacement.

    Lesser possibilities can also be that the whole system is just tweaked up super-super-rich, or the WUR control pressure is wacky when cold, and even more richness at cold start is making cold starting difficult.
     
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  5. Ballie64

    Ballie64 Rookie

    Apr 24, 2021
    40
    UK
    Full Name:
    Simon Ball
    Thank you I will check. The car has a very comprehensive service history service at least once a year since new in 1986 with all invoices to prove, often only doing 200 miles between services! It's recently had over 11k spent on it bringing it up to show condition at a UK Ferrari specialist so I am not too concerned but would like to find out why its been unplugged and the connector cable tied out of the way! I would have thought if it was a case of a faulty part a new one would have been replaced so there could be another reason as you say. It has an aftermarket exhaust I have noticed.
     
  6. JohnnyTS

    JohnnyTS Formula Junior

    Jun 3, 2012
    834
    just outside JHB, RSA
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    John
    some guys disconnect them at summer time with frequent driving, they can sometimes be over active and flood the fuel system, making it harder to start.
     
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  8. Ballie64

    Ballie64 Rookie

    Apr 24, 2021
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    Simon Ball
    Thank you that's very helpful
     
  9. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 9, 2016
    716
    I have never had any issues with this cold start circuitry on my car, I live in a very warm area. Im like you, I want everything to be connected ,and working no matter what. Let us know the outcome please,

    Thank you
     
  10. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
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    Feb 24, 2006
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    Or stuck open which will make it run rich or flood the engine if the thermo time switch is defective.
     
  11. tx2000252

    tx2000252 Rookie

    Jul 26, 2020
    15
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    Bryn Kahrl
    I had a lot of cold start problems when I got my 328. Interestingly, they were worse during the summer than cold weather. I have now replaced almost every hose and that solved my problem. Hoses were rotten on the inside and some were leaking air. Not a cheap proposition, but engine bay looks great with all the new hoses in place and the car runs much better.
     
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  13. Ballie64

    Ballie64 Rookie

    Apr 24, 2021
    40
    UK
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    Simon Ball
    I agree and would do the same I like my cars running how they should! What's interesting about mine (I only had it a few days) is that it has a unbelievable good history yet the connection has been cable tired out of the way! I probably need to write to the previous owner or contact KHPC who were looking after it for a few years and ask why this is. Looking at the amount the previous owner spent on it I can't believe it was a case of something was broken and he didn't want to pay to fix it ....I assume there is another reason
     
  14. tx2000252

    tx2000252 Rookie

    Jul 26, 2020
    15
    Full Name:
    Bryn Kahrl
    First of all, congrats!! It’s not that uncommon. Check out “the smoking tire” on youtube and his adventures with his 328. They are pretty easy to work on if you have gymnastic abilities... italian engineers love to bury bolts. I have had mine in so many pieces on the garage floor that I got a little worried.... lol. This is a great forum and people are very helpful. Also recommend to follow Ferrari_1966 on IG if you don’t already. Great guy.
     
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  15. Ballie64

    Ballie64 Rookie

    Apr 24, 2021
    40
    UK
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    Simon Ball
    I am more than happy to take stuff apart lol. I will follow the YouTube guy I don't do IG
     
  16. JohnnyTS

    JohnnyTS Formula Junior

    Jun 3, 2012
    834
    just outside JHB, RSA
    Full Name:
    John
    it's a pleasure, just sharing some 3x8 guys experiences and I'm not saying that is why it's disconnected in your case..
     
  17. moysiuan

    moysiuan Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2005
    2,172
    Canada
    #14 moysiuan, May 3, 2021
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
    It is odd that with such a service history this has been disconnected. It is important for cold starts, a momentary squirt integrated by the computer with engine temp, the auxiliary air valve and the other fuel injection component interactions is what it does.

    If it stuck open, disconnecting it does not mean it stops leaking. It is not that big a ticket item to replace, and is readily accessible so I would have thought it would be replaced if leaking or stuck. It is possible the car is running too rich, and this made it so rich that cold starts might have improved by disconnecting it. I would not be surprised if your WUR or fuel distributor are due for rebuilds, with the age of these cars if they have not been rebuilt already they will soon need to be.

    Larry Fletcher in the US is the go to fellow for rebuilds, http://www.cisflowtech.com/author/larry/ There is a German firm equivalent that can do the same https://www.mengenteiler.eu/index.php?language=eng&seite=modellspez_suche.

    You can do the fuel distributor rebuild yourself if you are ambitious, the kits are on ebay by Salvox and Precision Machinery, you purchase based on Bosch fuel distributor part number. There are you tube videos for the rebuild.

    No reason why these Bosch fuel system's can't be suitably refurbished and the car can run pretty much like new. These are the same systrems used in Mercedes and Porsche fuel injection systems of the period (and variants of the Bosch system used right into the 1990's before electronic fuel injection took over, these were state of the mechanical/computer hybrid art for their day) so the system was proved out in high volume applications. Most of the fancy electronics and related system components relate to ensuring cold and warm start up and idle emissions, even badly setup or worn out systems usually run ok on throttle.

    How is your car actually starting and running? You could plug it in and see what happens!

    I also see some original cloth braided hoses, you might want to renew various fuel line and vacuum, and air injection hoses, they would all be breaking down inside and prone to vacuum leaks, which can present symptoms of running too rich as the computer tries to compensate. Maybe a mechanic found disconnecting this cold start valve compensated for something like that and made the car start easier.
     
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  18. Ballie64

    Ballie64 Rookie

    Apr 24, 2021
    40
    UK
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    Simon Ball
    I agree some of those old hoses should be replaced I will look into sourcing and replacing these ASAP.....I am UK based
     
  19. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
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    Mike 996
    Like the OP, I would really want to know WHY the PO (or shop) disconnected it and then fix whatever. The system is essentially transparent if it is working properly - helps for starting and then "disappears." The only reason to disconnect it is if something is wrong with the activation circuitry. If the injector itself is "leaking," then disconnecting the electrical connector doesn't fix anything; it is still leaking.
     
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  20. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Karting

    Jul 29, 2013
    224
    Herts, UK
    Full Name:
    Richard
    Maybe not a bad thing to have the engine cranking a bit of oil around the system before cold starting, especially if infrequently used.
    Perhaps this is why it was disconnected?
    Just a thought.
     
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  21. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    Dec 12, 2005
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    I'm not sure that is the thermo time switch rather than the connection to the O2 sensor. on the Qv's and 328's the O2 sensor causes the engine to hunt up and down. its annoying at best, and can cause some running issues at worst. if the O2 sensor is corroded or not working or even missing - this is usually what happens. if its intact - and you plug it back in all it does is send a signal to the digiplex to richen or lean out the fuel... ergo the revs at idle go up and down..when you are cruising you can sometimes feel the car surge forward and seem like its slowing... that is more on 308's... but the actual result of unplugging the system is nothing ... if you were to put it on a CO analyzer then you may have problems.... but since the cars are now over 25 years since production - in the USA you don't need smog emissions ( CA may be excepted ) ... so most are non-functional. but I may be totally wrong.
     
  22. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Euro 328 don't have an O2 sensor (being K-Jet without Lambda) -- since the OP is in the UK, it is probably a RHD Euro version 328 (but would be good for the OP to confirm/deny the version).
     
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  23. Ballie64

    Ballie64 Rookie

    Apr 24, 2021
    40
    UK
    Full Name:
    Simon Ball
    Hi everyone Yes it is a RHD UK delivered car.

    I was speaking to a well know UK independent Ferrari specialist today who have been looking after the car for the previous owner for the last few years. The technician I spoke to was very familiar with the car and he has informed me that the plug is disconnected from the cold start jet because we don't need it here in the UK. He informed me that the cold start on these cars often causes the engine to flood if you start it up to move it out the garage then turn it off then try to start it again within a few minutes. So it would appear unplugging this is common practice here in the UK
     
  24. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
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    Jan 21, 2004
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    Guido
    Also in other nations of Europe.No need that cold start valve is working. Most cars are stationed in garages and not used in wintertime.
     
  25. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    Tom Spiro
    then disregard.
     
  26. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2012
    9,585
    Gold Coast, Aust.
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    Patrick
    I've disconnected mine ('85 QV, no lambda). It starts fine. The injector only fires on the start (engine cranking) signal, and when the thermo time switch is stone cold.
     
  27. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Sep 1, 2010
    6,879
    around Modena, Italy
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    Alberto
    Exactly: usually it's disconneted not because the cold start injector doesn't run well, but because the A/F ratio is too rich, so the car can't even start with the cold start injector spraying more fuel.

    If that is the case, check the spark plugs and you will dicover they are black: an FI service (Bosch doser plate) or at least a FI calibration is required.

    If the spark plugs are not too black, maybe the Warmup regulator (WUR) requires service.

    But at first you have to check what you wrote.

    ciao


    PS
    Very often it's a mix of all those problems... :D
     

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