In IAC/PFA judging (that includes all FCA Nationals, Concourso Italiano and many others) there is no difference between a 95 point car and a 100 point car, they get the same Platinum award and both are equally eligible for Coppa Bella Machina. Coppa GT, or other major awards. It is not only possible but quite common that lower scored cars receive major awards over higher scored cars.
Oh, didn't know that. I thought only the higher point cars moved on. Good to know. Are 1/2 point deductions part of the scoring process? -F
So is it better to have original stickers (paint, antifreeze , etc.) in the engine bay that are a bit rough or get reproductions? How bad is it to have slightly caved in rockers from jacking? Put another way, should I not even try at Concours ?
Rifledriver told me at the 2013 FCA Nationals that rough original stickers are better than reproductions. I don't know about caved in rockers. Best thing to do is just do the best you can, enter the car in an event and have it judged, then go from there. Then you will know where your issues are.
It is a matter of degree. If the originals are imperfect it may be better to leave them but if they are faded, torn and beat up I'd replace them.
Another newb concours question: Do the judges consider the original took kit (328 GTS) when judging the car. If so how much of a deduction would it be if it was missing. Mine was stolen and have not been able to replace it yet.
Yes they go through the tool kit and jack bag to make sure they are complete. Not sure of the deduction if you're missing something or the whole kit. They pop up on eBay all the time.
I got platinum at an FCA concours last year but also got a deductions because one of the spare fuses was missing from the little plastic thing and another because the rubber flap that goes over the gas cap had a crack in it.
Thanks for the information, much appreciated. It looks like I need to acquire a tool kit before attending a concours.
I received a deduction because the screw heads, in the front bumper parking lights, were corroded (white stuff on them that shows with age and water?). The judges also pointed out that there was a little wax left over in the lettering on the rear tail lights. I have resolved this for the next showing
This is the radio I have in my 308 QV. When off, the front flips around to look like a blank plate. My question is, for the FCA International Meet: 1 - Would this be a deduction for Concours? 2 - Would this, along with a CD, pass the Coppa Bella Macchina? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Radios of any kind are OK as long as they are neatly installed and do not detract from the car. That is open to interpretation but I cannot imagine any trouble with yours. Make sure all the wiring is tucked up under the dash. If you intend to compete for the Coppa Bella Machina the radio will be tested. If it plays 8 track, cassette, CD or MP3 that will be tested as well and you need whatever is required to make that happen.
Thanks! I was hoping you would respond. I have the original Blaupunkt, from the dealer install, but would prefer not to put that one in if the current one was passible by the judges.
I have found FCA concorse judging to be subjective. It clearly stated in the guidelines "Excessive cleaning is not necessary. Ferrari's are meant to be driven". Even so I washed, waxed and detailed my car before the show, including removing the wheels and cleaning the rotors and calipers. At the judging, I was docked a point for having brake dust on my calipers (simply from the 20 mile drive to the event), for a non-existent dent (which was on the car next to mine), for a cracked tail light which I don't have and for a light not working (which had been working the day before but just didn't happen to work during judging). I missed platinum by 1/2 point and would have easily scored that had they not somehow transferred over the dent and broken tail light from the car parked next to mine (same color and year) or simply had not docked me for the "barely there" caliper dust. They didn't even have me open up my tool kit or my owners manual case, both of which are complete. This may not be the issue at all FCA events, but the problem is that they did not give or show us a copy of our scoring at the event when you could do something to correct the errors. I had to call the head judge two weeks later to get the scoring and his response was (it looks like they made a couple of errors". I made the request that this year they give us the score cards and I am waiting to see if that happens. After all the entire point is to be for the preservation of Ferrari's. If they don't let us know what we lose points for, how are we to know what to correct? It seems, to some extent, to come down to the individual judges and what they personally want to focus on that particular day.
Where did this happen and where did the judges come from? Many local events they just grab members of the club who are not IAC/PFA judges or know anything about those judging rules. That is not the case at national events.
There is a lot wrong with what you described. First, there's nothing on the scoring sheets for brake dust or dirt on the body of the car. There is a place for stains on upholstery but that is not the same thing. Second, you are supposed to be notified of any deductions and given time (30 minutes?) to rectify anything. Lastly, you are supposed to be shown the scoring sheet so you know what you were docked on. That said, local car shows, even ones that are run by the local chapter of the FCA are not always on the same level as a national event. -F
I'm not going to pick on the local chapter which I am a member of and maybe they will get it better at this year's event. There is actually a judges training seminar before the event and I reminded the head judge of some of the problems from last year and hopefully they will be corrected.
It is a very common problem with local chapters and regions and is something there is discussion on trying to correct. This year we making plans to start taking steps in the South Central Region. Taking a bunch of well meaning volunteers and giving them an hour talk just won't do it. As I said in this or a similar thread, a well judged event generally results in higher rather than lower scores.
Your last comment is exactly the opposite of my (and I bet others') 'assumption'. Seems I typically hear some 3rd hand repeated tale of "So-and-so got a 2 point deduction for a speck of fly poop inside their spark plug socket," perpetuating the mythical status of National Level concours. Glad to hear that its more grounded and realistic.
At a local event we heard of recently someone got a 2 point deduction for some small paint defects. We pointed out that if the car showed up with no paint on it, it would only be a 5 point deduction. So, did it show up with problems with 40% of the paint? They try hard to prevent that but at local events stuff happens. Supposed to be encouraging people to keep their cars nice, original and use them, not running them off.
+1 Even if they are using the IAC/PFA paperwork, judging at local events tends to be done in the context of a bunch of guys brought together for a few hours of judging, which they've never done before. I'm not sure concours judging at a small local event should be taken too seriously. Do your best and try to enjoy it. I think the IAC/PFA paperwork could be improved a bit. I get allowing for leeway but more specificity in what to review and how to apply point deductions would improve the process. -F
I am not sure you have ever seen a complete set of the paperwork. There is what you suggest but it is 4 pages long. If we made it with the specificity that you suggest it would be a book. The people need to know what they are doing. There is no substitute for that. At a big event we work under very tight time constraints. We just don't have time to use resource materials as you suggest. My day at Cavallino or a national event typically starts at 7:30 am and ends at 5:30 or 6 pm with a working lunch. No time to do more than we already do. By the time I am back out the field is cleared and the cars are gone.
