328 cuts out when hot, will not restart till cold | FerrariChat
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328 cuts out when hot, will not restart till cold

Discussion in '308/328' started by 1987-328, Dec 27, 2012.

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  1. 1987-328

    1987-328 Rookie

    Dec 26, 2012
    3
    #1 1987-328, Dec 27, 2012
    Hi all,

    I am here on behalf of my father, he has a beautiful 1987 328 GTS that he has owned for around 7 years, the car has been faultless in this time untill a few weeks ago.
    while driving on a very hot day in Sydney around 40 degrees the car just cut out and would not restart. after being on the side of the road for over 1.5 hours it started and ran fine, quick rev and off it went, 3km down the road cut out again and would not restart.
    I have a little experience with K Jet but not since my early apprenticeship days days, knows how old bosch fuel pumps can over heat and stall i suspected this, another hour later it started and ran fine, let it idle for 15 mins no issues, We fittted a new pump and all seemed ok, next drive was around 10 mins stop car for 15 mins and restarted ok, 5 mins down the road cut out again, would not restart, towed it home and into the garage and of course it started.....
    we have not had a lot of time to look over things yet due to Xmas etc, however after doing plenty of searches on here i do have a few things to check including the pump relay, i hope i can get it to cut out again with little it sit in the grarage at idle and wait and see, i also suspect that one of the crank sensors might be going out of resistance when it is hot, so i can check this also next time it plays up.

    so my question is, has anyone experienced this sort of issue before? all the threads i have gone through seem to be for them just cutting out and not restarting at all.

    can anyone advise if the Cat overheat sensor system cut the engine out and cause this concern? this light kept flashing on and off for a while before it first cut out but i dont believe it has been on anytime recently (unless the globe blew).....

    any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Many thanks in advance Gents.

    Grant
     
  2. PT 328

    PT 328 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    May 1, 2005
    4,004
    #2 PT 328, Dec 27, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
    Welcome to F-Chat although not under ideal circumstances. Is yours a Euro or US version?

    It could be a bad relay, clogged fuel filter, accumulator, electrical issue (battery ground), plug wires/extenders, etc.. ...You can check the accumulator by pulling the small line and if fuel comes out the accumulator needs replaced.
     
  3. 1987-328

    1987-328 Rookie

    Dec 26, 2012
    3
    #3 1987-328, Dec 27, 2012
    Hi and thanks for the welcome.

    I believe our vehicles are Euro versions, is there an easy way to confirm this?

    we will check the accumulator, i think this is next to the pump correct?

    I am very sure i checked for spark when it had stopped and an pretty sure we had spark and the plugs were not wet, so i will look in the fuel supply area and check the accumulator.

    it has a new pump and filter.

    will keep you updated.

    thanks again

    Grant
     
  4. JohnnyTS

    JohnnyTS Formula Junior

    Jun 3, 2012
    907
    Pretoria East, RSA
    Full Name:
    John
    #4 JohnnyTS, Dec 27, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
    sound like vapour lock but I'm not sure since its a fuel injected car, could also be a sensor that fails when becoming hot - like the tdc pickup in the bell housing.

    disconnect the cold start valve on the right hand side of the top air intake, that blue plug, maby the cold start valve is faulty and injecting to much fuel causing it to stahl.

    if not, I'll also check the accumulator and yes its right next to the fuel pump.

    cheers
     
  5. climb

    climb F1 Rookie

    Sep 19, 2006
    4,866
    Atlantic Beach Fl
    Full Name:
    Stuart K. Hicks
    #5 climb, Dec 28, 2012
    The gas cap isn't ventilated. Try running without it on. Maybe vapor lock due to it.
     
  6. ME308

    ME308 Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,550
    Munich, Germany
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #6 ME308, Dec 28, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
    well,.. spark or fuel ;)
    seriously, seems like you have to really take a systematic approach here

    for the symptoms you describe - sudden engine cut out - you probably have to look for ONE single part that influences either the complete fuel system or the complete ignition system of the engine...preferably the most upstream part in each system


    you already gave us some valuable information to better track down your problem
    now, what do we know here:


    you obviously do NOT have a EURO Version since 87 EURO cars have neither a cat nor a slowdown warning light (could be suiss or swedish version though)
    the thermocouple in the cat triggering the slow down warning light does NOT cut out neither cylinder bank nor complete engine
    the warning light flashes around cat temps of 920 °C and stays solid above 940 °C (in both situations you should stop the car yourself !)



    obviously your problem is heat related !
    as for fuel, this could be a defective fuelpump, or a defective pump relay that suddenly "opens" (rare...since when relays go bad they either do not close or rest stuck closed)
    as for ignition, it could be either the tdc sensor (10am position on the flywheel) or the rpm sensor (2pm position on the flywheel) or one step downstream the ignition module (microplex) itself



    so since you already changed the fuel pump, the only possible causes upstream of the fuel system are the two relays R (fuel pump...Bosch 113) and S (inj. pump starting relay, Bosch...101) - see your manual for relay verification
    change relays R and S...for testing reasons you can take relay Q (window motor) for R and relay P (air condition) for S - Bosch numbers are the same



    location is correct...but most likely not the culprit
    accumulators keep the fuel pressure for a certain time after shut down...they do not cut out engines



    probably won`t happen since the engine heat while idling might not rise high enough to replicate the failure ...



    this is your hottest trace...!
    but... a tdc or rpm sensor can measure ok when cold (600-700 ohm) although failing again when hot

    change both would be my advice and solution here !



    well, this is something to verify !
    unfortunately it would be troublesome for the above suggested solution since it would rule out the sensors -
    no tdc sensor signal or no rpm sensor signal to the microplex ...no spark...but maybe you were wrong ;)



    so good luck testing ;)
     
  7. lonnie77

    lonnie77 Karting

    Feb 17, 2011
    140
    Kennedale, Texas
    Full Name:
    Lonnie Harrison
    #7 lonnie77, Dec 28, 2012

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