328 differential securing nut fell off..... | FerrariChat
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328 differential securing nut fell off.....

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Tod328gts, Oct 11, 2004.

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  1. Tod328gts

    Tod328gts Formula Junior

    Jul 23, 2003
    626
    River Forest, IL
    Full Name:
    Tod Whitmore
    #1 Tod328gts, Oct 11, 2004
    Well, it seems like with this 328 of mine, it's a never ending story.

    Just wondering if anyone has ever had the Crown Securing nut fall off before? There are eight bolts and a securing nut holding the large gear together in the differential housing. Well, the other day while pulling into my driveway, i heard a clunk and i thought my rear end fell off. My friend, ' that repairs all types of Italian cars, said, 'Don't Drive it anymore!' so i had it towed over to him. Nothing looked wrong fromthe out side, except i couldn't get the car into reverse. So, he dropped the transmission pan and whala, there was one crown securing nut laying in there, after looking up into the differential witha flashlight, you could see the bolt with the missing nut.

    He said thank god you weren't on the track or on the highway when that happened, it could have been a lot worse... He said these bolts should never come off, my 328 only has 12K miles on it too, 7 of which i put on in the last year. He said possibly in the factory this bolt didn't get torqued down all the way durring assembly...

    Now comes the fun, my Tubi and headers need to come out so they can get to the differential housing and open it up and see if there was any more damage and to replace the bolt. He said he will replace all eight of them with new ones too.....

    Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this.... I have a 1988 328 GTS...
     
  2. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    20,042
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    #2 tbakowsky, Oct 11, 2004
    YES!! A customer of mine has an 87 328 and this same thing happend to him!! The nuts came of the crown gear bolts. He was driving on the highway and started to hear a bad noise. This was on a saterday. I told him to get it to the shop ASAP..SO he drove it!! Well I put the car up on the hoist and have him in the car drive it in gear. I heard the nosie right away and told him to shut down. I gave him the bad news on Monday after a pulled the pan down and found THREE nuts liing there with chunks of transmission case. I removed the diff and ALL the nuts on the crown gear bolts were loose. The bolts that had lost nuts were sliding around in there holes..and as the diff was spinning they were taking chunks out of the trans case. There was a hole about 3 inched across in the diff case wall into the gearbox itself. What a distaster. I have some pic's of the damage but I don't have a scanner to post them.

    The crown gear and the rest of the gears in the trans were ok. I located a used case and swapped everything over. The car is now running strong with no trans issues 2 years later.
     
  3. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 26, 2001
    33,425
    E ' ' '/ F
    Full Name:
    Enzo Gorlomi
    #3 GrigioGuy, Oct 11, 2004
    Hmmm.

    Is there any way to check for this without removing half the drivetrain?
     
  4. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

    Jul 21, 2002
    2,559
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Philip
    #4 pma1010, Oct 11, 2004
    Tod
    Sorry to read of your distress. Good luck. Hopefully you are not in second mortgage territory to repair.
    Philip
     
  5. Tod328gts

    Tod328gts Formula Junior

    Jul 23, 2003
    626
    River Forest, IL
    Full Name:
    Tod Whitmore
    #5 Tod328gts, Oct 12, 2004
    Thanks Tom for that info, hopefully my casing is ok, then next couple of days we will find out when everything gets torn apart.....

    Tillman, my friend showed me the missing nut by removing the transmission pan and viewing up through the transmission looking into the differential gear box with a flashlight. I was able to see the bolt with the missing nut, not sure if you can check them from there to see if they are tight or not though???

    Phillip, thanks, hopefully this repair won't put me in the poor house, just glad this didn't happen on the track or highway, it could have done some real serious damage then. Will learn more later when the diff. housing gets pulled apart....
     
  6. flyingboa

    flyingboa Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2003
    1,564
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Eugenio Dalla Rosa
    #6 flyingboa, Oct 12, 2004
    You guys made me worry...
    Even if no problems happened with my 328, a look would make me more comfortable. Is there any way for you to post a picture?
    Thanks in advance
    Eugenio
     
  7. Tod328gts

    Tod328gts Formula Junior

    Jul 23, 2003
    626
    River Forest, IL
    Full Name:
    Tod Whitmore
    #7 Tod328gts, Oct 13, 2004
    OK, i will get some pictures and post them, just trying to get over the shock of the price Ferrari charges for a few simple bolts and nuts..

    There are 8 crown bolts and nuts, each bolt from Ferrari costs $55.00 and the nut cost $10 each. So, that will be about $500.00 for eight bolts and nuts!!! What is this world comming too ???? I told my mechanic i will get them at friken ACE hardware, because is seems like the Ferrari bolts and nuts don't hold too well..... Hmmmm?????
     
  8. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    20,042
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    #8 tbakowsky, Oct 13, 2004

    HA..I did the samething once I heard the price..I forgot to warn you. I went to an industrial supply house here in town and they had what I needed. They will not be exact but they work perfectly. And they are a stronger grade of bolt. When I reassembled I used Loctight Red permanent thread locker. Those guy's anit going no place.
     
  9. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    18,055
    USA
    #9 f355spider, Oct 14, 2004
    Tod, you'd be surprised what you can find at a local Ace store...I had a seat back bolt shear off on my 328...removed seat, drilled and used "easy out" to remove the stub, then ran down to Ace (five blocks away), and found a grade 12.9 Allen bolt in the right size (and being of a higher grade than the original grade 8.8, less likely to fail in the future!).

    Dave
     
  10. Tod328gts

    Tod328gts Formula Junior

    Jul 23, 2003
    626
    River Forest, IL
    Full Name:
    Tod Whitmore
    #10 Tod328gts, Oct 20, 2004
    Hmmmm???? Does anyone know why here???? This crown bolt is $65 each from ferrari, i just checked with a local fastener shop and they could make this bolt for me out of friken titanium for about $10.00...

    What type of material does Ferrari use here???? I'm just very confussed....

    Still in the process of tearing down the Diff., looking for anything else that may need replacing.. HAH!
     
  11. flyingboa

    flyingboa Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2003
    1,564
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Eugenio Dalla Rosa
    #11 flyingboa, Oct 21, 2004
    When you enter inside the world of a company such as Ferrari you could be VERY surprised of how they build prices. It is sometime amazing. Just think, for example that they buy the nut and bolt from an "approved" external supplier. Then they have to accept it into the company, re-identify it with a Ferrari P/N, pack it and store it. Total time for each bolt say 30 minutes (calculated, not real...)
    Consider an industrial cost for man power of, say, 50 € per hour, add the initial cost of the bolt, add the profit and here you are with a 55 $ bolt....
    Because of a similar process my company quoted a final price of 300 $ for a component that costed us 5 bucks...
    This was clearly wrong and was modified before reaching the final customer, but it gives you an idea of how a bureaucrat, just adding and multiplying numbers, can end up with a non reasonable price.
    Ciao
    Eugenio
     
  12. Tod328gts

    Tod328gts Formula Junior

    Jul 23, 2003
    626
    River Forest, IL
    Full Name:
    Tod Whitmore
    #12 Tod328gts, Oct 24, 2004
    Ok, got some pictures today. My mechanic also found two additional crown bolts that were loose. Ok, this car is a 1988, but it only has 12K miles on it. These bolts are not suppose to fall off. My mechanic said that these three bolts were never torqed properly at the factory.Well, doesn't say much for Ferrari Quality. He is going to write a letter to Ferrari Italy and see if they will replace the parts because of thier screw up. Lets hope, that will save me the $500 in parts......

    I am beginning to wonder about Ferrari Quality now.... Hmmmmm.... My mechanic says if the first owner of my car drove it, this problem would have been found while the car is under warrenty. But the first owner only put 5k miles on it in 15 yrs., then the last year i put an additional 7k on it which brought this problem up, another reason to avoid garage queens...
     

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