328 Dipstick/oil levels

The manual says 2.1 qt (2 L)

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You're no fun: the owners manual is such a silly place to look for an answer !!

 

So, I checked my owner's manual for my '85 308, US version, and it does not have the MAX - MIN highlighted line, but the other number are the same. This is confusing in that the max line seems to equate to 8 litres and the min to 6. Why, then, does it say the capacity is 10 litres to the left? Is it that you could overfill if you wanted, say for a track day? I am sure I knew the answer to this at one time, but have forgotten.

 

The dipstick checks the oil level in the engine sump - You also have oil in the oil lines to and from the oil cooler, and in the cooler itself, that is not being measured.

Also, the oil level is checked with the engine at normal operating temperature, in the same was as a dry sump engine (even though the 328 is a wet sump engine), so there will also be oil that is not back in the sump.

Add those two things together and you will easily have an additional two litres of oil.

Check a 328's oil when cold and you should find it's "over-full" (but it isn't!)

Why Ferrari didn't go with and engine cold oil level check is a bit weird - It would have made checking the oil level simpler (you wouldn't burn your fingers on the dipstick and metal cap on the cam-cover for a start!)

 

+1 -- Just guessing (because I like guessing ), the "10" is the "dry capacity" = the amount of oil that needs to be added to a new system that has never had any oil in it before; whereas, the "7" and "5" represent the amounts needed to be added when doing an oil change. I'd add that you should always measure the volume of the old oil fluid removed to compare to the amount of the new fluid added as a sanity check.

Not really practical as the rate that the oil drains down into the sump can vary a lot on different cars depending on the internal clearances and the random positions of where the various oil holes in the rotating assemblies wind up, and even the amount that drains down can vary. Wouldn't be too good to have a spec that said "wait at least 12 hours after engine shutoff (or after adding oil to the dry sump cars) to measure the oil level". Although there nothing wrong with an Owner "learning" what the typical long-disuse, cold oil level is (and if it is consistent, or not).

 

Check it hot once. Then check it cold the next morning to see the "cold" level. Check it cold for the rest of your life! Worrying about a quart either way is not worth the bother..

 

What I did with my dipstick is after checking the oil level 15 minutes after engine shut off, and the level is at Max, I then checked it again next morning and the level is about 1/2” above the Max level then I made a mark on the dipstick 1/2” above the Max line so now I know where the oil level is when it’s cold.

 

Point taken

All of my current cars state to check the oil with the engine at operating temperature, several minutes after the engine is switched off:

1989 Ferrari 328 GTS: From the German and French sections of my owners manual (basic translation): "Wait 15 minutes for a precise measurement" - From the English part: "Wait a few minutes for precise checking" (Apparently UK oil drains down at a quicker rate than German or French oil )

2001 BMW E46 330ci: Wait 5 minutes after switching the engine off.

1989 Vauxhall Senator 3.0 24 valve: Wait 2 minutes after switching the engine off.

I have though, in the past owned cars that stated the engine oil should be checked with the engine cold, ideally left overnight and checked the next day, to ensure the oil has drained down to the sump.

 

Welcome to Ferrari documentation . Some of this comes for the Italians not always selecting the best English translation phrase IMO -- not incorrect, but just not the best to convey the desired meaning. The carb 308 OMs say to check it "just after stopping" (which maybe indicates too much urgency to let the sloshing and bubbling to dissipate) when it would've been better to say something like "shortly after.." or "a few minutes after...". The 15 minutes seem overly much to me.

I will agree with Mike 996, that for rational street driving, you'd probably never notice any operational thing from being 1 quart below the MIN mark on a 308/328 (and you could could be 3 quarts below the MIN mark on a TR ), but on a big-block Chrysler that only has 5 quart total capacity = probably a good idea to keep up up near the MAX marking even just for street-driving.

 

Hence why the metal to metal dip stick tube to union olive must be oil tight....
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Thanks. I wouldn't have thought the difference was two quarts between cold and hot.

 

Even 1 Qt low in street driving I have had 308s starve for oil in right hand turns so I am not a big fan of allowing that. It was such an issue many purposely overfill for track events. The 328 had a sump and pick up tube redesign to help that but it certainly was no cure.

 

I wrote "rational street driving", not "the typical normal F aggressive street driving of going around a freeway cloverleaf at 60 mph that is posted for 35 mph" . Next time I'll be more specific, and write "driving obeying all legal, and recommended, speed signs".

 

@Steve Magnusson - Even at what I would consider rational street driving levels (with my daughter in the car no less) I’ve experienced oil starvation when my dipstick registered max oil level, so I solved the problem the easiest way possible: I bought a dry sump car.
There’s more to the story behind acquiring the GTB than just solving the oil starvation issue, but had I planned to keep the GTS I would have definitely installed a sump baffle and recommend that every wet sump 308 owner do the same; regardless how hard you think you’re going to push your car on the street.
- Dave

 

308/328 oil level check. Oil temp about 1/4 on the gauge, shut down. Sit 15 minutes. Level should be between min and max on dip stick.

 

"Even at what I would consider rational street driving levels (with my daughter in the car no less) I’ve experienced oil starvation when my dipstick registered max oil level"

I'm trying to understand where all that oil is going in a turn at anything that can be done on the street with street tires. I don't know how far the pickup is above the base of the oil sump but to lose suction, 6-8 quarts of oil would have to plastered against the side of the sump. Hard for me to believe that a Ferrari engine's oiling system is that badly designed.

 

I tracked my '87 328GTS for 7 years and never experienced oil starvation. Good street tires were always used. Cornering was hard enough where car would understeer but corrected by lifting throttle a little.

 

It was famous for being that badly designed. The oil sump is crossways and on the left side there were huge gaping holes in the baffling allowing the oil to slosh up the back side of the motor. Oil starvation in right hand turns is very common. Had it happen on the street with a stock car, no special tires many times. Ferrari built a dry sump version for a very good reason.

 

Sounds like it was designed for NASCAR ovals. Left, left, left, left,........

 

I was a sports car fan long before I became a 308 owner; I can remember Road and Track road tests from back in the '70's/'80's mentioning the oil starvation issue.
@Rifledriver - Do we know which version was on the drawing board (not in the car) first: wet sump or dry sump?
- Dave

 

Its just a guess but since from the outset it was intended to be a lower priced car I would bet it was wetsump. it had to have been obvious to any designer involved with the project that an engine with a laterally oriented oil sump would be subject to turning induced G forces causing oil starvation. It also must have become obvious early on in testing that the baffling design was incapable of preventing it. Advances in tire technology made it worse over the years.

 

Interesting point re tires - I was wondering if it was an issue that surfaced with stickier tiers - i.e. track compounds rather than street tires of the time. I don't know what sort of g-force the cars were originally capable of with the as-equipped tires compared to track (or modern) tires. It certainly seems odd that the sump would be lateral to the car but, OTOH, if you take pretty much any conventional "fore/aft" engine and turn it 90 degrees, the oil sump automatically becomes "lateral." DOH! Maybe that's why they turned the engine back to "normal" on the 288 GTO!

 

First year Ferrari raced at Le Mans with disc brakes every factory entry dropped out with engine failure. They still had wet sumps and the long hard brake application at the end of the Mulssane straight saw all the oil go up the chain case and all the cars had engine failures. Next year they had dry sumps.
The 308 was not their first rodeo.