WELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL?? I spent about two hours looking and looking. The only thing I found and did was the back bank coil ignition wire was not clipped in to the coil, did that. Unbolted the access to the Microplex, took off the ground wire cleaned it and the tab, it was a little corroded, but not much. Was there something else on the right side? Anyway what I did, didn't work. Actually when Rick from WWoC picked it up, I started it again and it ran strong. Looked at Rick and said "I'm not nuts", after about 1 minute of running OK, the revs dropped and the spitting, backfiring and no power. So he sees it. It starts and runs great for anywhere from 1/2 minute to 2 minutes it seems,(not on a cold start, always chugs) then the revs dropped and the chugging begins???? Anyway WWoC has it now and I hope it keeps doing it when it arrives at the dealer. Let you know John
John: I had the same cold start problem. A new thermo switch that screws into the coolant reservior tank fixed the problem. Ken
Very interested in WWoC findings Mr. Arends. The thermostatic switch under the coolant tank "signals" the Jetronic ECU about engine temrperature. On my car cold = continuity and warm = open (no continuity). You can test at cold start by bridging terminals (simulating cold engine) and see if problem persists. Carl
Good question Wax, that's why the fuel pump sticks in my mind. I'm printing this thread out and faxing it to WWoC, I think the work you guys have done here is valuable to even a seasoned mechanic. (I think Jim Murphy of WWoC, posts so maybe I'll just let him know to look) Regards all John With this beautiful w/e, I'd have love to take the F-car out, Oh well. Took the prize winning 84 T/A out, Ts off, I could live with this weather all year.
Another stupid suggestion, perhaps your plug wires/connectors have gotten old and let moisture in. Thus the intermittency of the problem. It's pretty annoying when your car runs in the garage, but is a PITA once you're outside ...
Have the fuel tanks been completely drained? Water Have the injectors been pressure tested? As all have mentioned, fuel PSI and PSI regulator... If the CIS systems get a bad load of fuel...need I say more. The curious thing here is the few times it ran just fine after being worked on, then it faults... In a faulted condition, if you could run the car when completely dark and inspect/wiggle wires around with your rubber gloves on to check for arcing. I had a mystery run problem with a high energy ignition system. Anyway, I'd fuss around with the plug wires, run okay then bad...change the sparkplugs, run okay then bad. Finally, an 'old school' mechanic put the car in a dark garage...there it was, #4 wire had a pinhole in it, and the arcing was evident when the wire got to within 1/4 inch or so of a ground path. So I keep thinking, fuel contamination...remedied briefly when the pump or filter is disturbed. Then electronics, things are disturbed and the car runs super for a while...then after some vibration and miles things settle to where they were before...shorting takes place or a ground is lost. Start at the supply source for each system, working toward the respective destination. This is time consuming and it sucks. But, on an old Porsche of mine...I disdovered why my car would stumble when driven in the rain...water found a rub through in the fuel pump's power source wire's insulation=fuel pump went to short, but not long enough to blow a fuse! I don't mean to ramble here, but I had to add here hoping that some good energy and an honest mechanic cross your path soon. The problem is finite and I hope you share the ultimate solution! Sorry $$$, Good Luck! PeterB.
Hey Carl, I sent you an email, The problem according to WWoC has been found. I had a quick 15 second discussion with Jim at WWoC in which he told me that a relay on the right side of the trunk was the problem. It was still running lousy when the mechanic took it in. They switched the suspected relay with one from a car they had there and it straighted out. Put the relay back in and the problem came back with it. This is a $380 relay with one hour+ time. Folks, this could have been fixed with $550. I'm depressed. I didn't want to jump in with this until I saw it with my own eyes and read exactly what it is, but some are asking. I'll post the details when I have them. John
Ok, I went through what relays are back in the rear compartment for a 308. Remember this is for a 308 not a 328 but they should have close to the same relays. What is back there on a 308. 1.Lambda control unit. Shouldn't be the problem as $380 wouldn't get a new one. 2.Then Relay for Protection of 02 sensor. 3.Thermocouple control unit 4.Relay for throttle microswitch 5.Relay for electro valve Anyone have an idea of which relay and why? I am curious.
That relay powers the frequency injector at the side of the fuel distrubutor. This injector helps to regulate the fuel keeping it as close to stochiometric as possiable. It's controled by the emission computer and the emission computer gets it's info from the o2 sensor. I thought sombody mentioned this relay already in the post. This relay is a problem with these cars. I have replaced more of these then anyother componet (besides timing belts) on Ferrari's.
I would go back to the other shops and demand a refund. You paid them thousands and they did not fix the problem. Birdman
Tom B, Is this the same relay you helped me diagnose on my 328gts last summer? If you recall, you directed me to make a jumper to test out the "overprotection relay" on for the fuel distribution system. ( I am the guy who was using a test light to jump the terminals.... DuuuuHHH!) My car has run flawlessly since I replaced that relay. I still owe you that beer by the way!! Moondog
The symptoms sound much like when I lost the O2 protection relay on my 3.2; could tell it was injection so sent the car to a Bosch Service Center (was in Germany at the time) and they indicated that this was not uncommon.
Hello All, I just replaced my 02 sensor relay, and it was no where near $350! I bought one from Evans Automotive for $109. Unplug the old one, plug in the new. About as much time as it took for you to talk to WWOC. But, mine didn't solve my problem. Can someone relay (no pun intended) the symptoms of a bad relay? The aluminum outer shell on mine becomes energized and when it touches metal on the car it shorts the fuel pump out and blows the fuse. Sorry to jump on this thread but hoped I could get some info as long as pass on some.Here is the email of George at Evans Auto. [email protected] David
Sorry you had to spend over 7K on incompetent troubleshooting for a $110 part. This is the exact reason why FI systems scare the heck out of me on italian cars in general and my reason for owning only a pre 1980 pony car. Only the Japanese have FI systems down pat without endless gremlins haunting them like my 89 supra. Almost 300K miles on my supra with NO FI problems ever. Heaven forbid. I drive my supra around however with the "check engine" light on due to an EGR temperature sensor fault. I don't care as long as the stupid thing passes CA smog. Replaced all FI sensors on my supra when I swapped engines at 240,000 just for the heck of it.
This post brings to light something I have been thinking about and working on. Why is it that when Ferrari uses Bosch FI it has problems, but if you were to get into a 15-20yr old Mercedes, using the exact same technology and parts, 9 out of 10 times it will start cold/warm, run perfectly and pass emissions? I refuse to believe that you must warm up a Ferrari for 10min before even moving it! It is all Bosch "stuff" . I will sort mine out and try to post the results. In only 3 weeks of ownership I am finding out that alot of it is the results of other "experts" messing with a perfectly good system and the problems snowball from there.
Abarth, Ive had 3 Lotus Turbo's. Basically the 86 had the same injection. Problems NONE. WHy? Well it doesnt have an Italian electrical system. The major systems are fine. Its the supporting Italian electrical system and the lack of use for what I see as the major problems here. My 94 Lotus was even better. Had GM fuel injection and no problems ever. The 86 I replaced 3 relays none related to the FI. Seems most of these problems here on the 3 series cars are electrical and troublesome but not deadly. Seeing all this here reminds me its the simple stuff generally that fails and this is helping me in my Fcar search
Great you got it fixed Mr. Arends! (did not receive your email for some odd reason?) The part is a Porsche relay #928-615-124-00 I paid $127 from local Porsche dealer. My car also "indicates" by duty cycle of 76% at frequency valve it is running lean (very similar to yours). I found the old thread regarding making a "jumper wire" to bypass this relay but discussion wasn't explicit to me (sorry). Can someone post the proper method of bypass? Thanks & congratulations once again. $380 is little to pay for peace of mind and solvency. Carl
OK think I figured out how to test this: Removing the O-2 protection relay, if the base/mounting plate is at 6 o'clock (looking directly into black plug from relay side): Ignition turned to "run" Large light brown wire at 9 o'clock is power All other wires will demonstrate continuity to ground. Using a fused (inline, perhaps 5mA?) jumper, connect to terminal at 6 o'clock, which will have one large and one smaller brown with black stripe wire meeting at terminal. This fires the frequency valve. You'll hear it buzz. Then start car. If relay is problem (i.e. nonfunctional) - car should start. If there's some other aspect of relay partially malfunctioning...not sure what this reveals. Carl
