These look like an aftermarket item: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110556838362 Has anyone evaluated these? It's delivered from the Netherlands. Nice looking as a prototype...definitely not OEM.. More comments are appreciated. Image Unavailable, Please Login
The key question is "what is the material?". If you can find out from the Seller, I'd be glad to do some comparison research. If the material is quasi-equivalent temperature-wise, I think that price is very fair -- JMO.
Response from the seller: "Teflon and Fiberglas. I use them on my 400i and the fit and work excellent. I produced a series to lower the cost. I sell the bushing that I didn?t need"
Insufficient information (although reportedly working OK in a 400i isn't a bad thing -- but trouble may not appear until longer use/exposure to high temps).
Futureman, One of mine (cylinder #1) is worn enough to angle the injector enough to cause the fuel spray to deposit onto the intake sides...failed emissions! After cleaning all the injectors and finding #1 at a tilt, I placed o-rings in it to align it enough to properly atomize without deposition...passed emissions!!! I just don't want to pay high OEM costsfor this...if this is good enough, I may try one for kicks.
I believe he means some form of a glassfiber reinforced PTFE material (and that wouldn't be a bad choice), but without more (accurate) description, it's hard to be sure.
A few of mine were worn a little, but after reinstalling the injectors and looking from the bottom of the intake before putting it back on the car their alignment didn't seem to be off too much. I believe McCann has them for $60 a piece. Still completely ludicrous, but not as bad as $268 that Ferrari wants (I'm assuming his are after market). That's an interesting point that I didn't consider though: the fuel spray depositing on the intake sides. I may have to revisit the alignment of the injectors when I take everything back apart.
The one of mine that was worn was worn heavily enough to require inserting some small o-rings underneath to keep the injector from tilting. Having extra rubber there bugs me a little. Do you have McCann's web address? Rob H.
He beat me to it. Except for the 308 part. Why would he want a slower car? Granted, I'd jump all over a Euro 308 GTB like a fat German kid on a chocolate bar.
Wow. Yeah, mine weren't worn anywhere near that much. So can the o-rings fall into the intake??? Yeah, you need to replace those.
More details from the seller: "product info Teflon PTFE- Glass-Filled Teflon PTFE Glass-Filled Milled glass fibers have the least effect on chemical and electrical properties and add greatly to the mechanical properties of unfilled PTFE. Addition of glass improves compressive properties by as much as 40% and improves wear resistance greatly. These compounds resist acids and oxidation but can be attacked by alkali. Teflon with 25% glass fibers for increased stability is supplied in sheets, rods & tubes. ?It is available in Standard 25% Glass Filler, as well as, 15%, 20%, and other custom blends. ?Heat resistant ?Chemical resistant ?Better mechanical properties than standard PTFE "
Sounds a very reasonable/practical material choice to me -- has a continuous use maximum temperature spec in the 150-200 deg C ballpark (which is even a little better than the stock phenolic part).
Hello The ad on ebay is mine. Rob send a email with this tread about the injector bushings. Because of the crazy prices I decided to asked a company to produce serveral bushings to lower the costs. The bushings are made of fibre glass filled teflon and are made on a CNC milling machine. I can deliver the bushings for euro 25,00 dollar each and the O rings for US dollar 1,0 (big one on the outside) and US dollar 1,50 for the thick O ring on the inside. If you are interested you can send an e-mail. The prices are not commercial. The internet prices are 1.25 4.50 and 268 US dollar. Kin regards Geert Jan ([email protected])
All, I received and successfully installed the newly-designed 328 fuel injector bushing with excellent initial results. I will operate the engine for several drives prior to replacing all of mine. My major concerns will be heat deformation, fuel-contact integrity/degredation, and misfire possibilities (with air leakage causing lean conditions). Apart from the obvious white color, indicating materiasl difference from OEM, the bushing and seals look to be of good to excellent quality. Pic 1, below is of the bushing as received by Geert Jan from the Netherlands. Pic 2 shows my current injector installed. The next several posts will disclose my replacement process...Enjoy FChat. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
The first step was to remove the hex fuel line cap and let fuel drain. BE VAERY SAFE WITH FUEL AND FUEL CLEANING!!! I absorbed the fuel drained. Afterwards, I used snap-ring pliers to remove the injector bushing retaining ring. Pic 1 below shows the injector with hex line cap removed and fuel being present. Pic 2 shows the fuel absorbed and cleaned. Pic 3 shows the snap ring pliers used, and... Pic 4 shows the removed snap ring. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
To remove THIS injector with it's bushing, I reinstalled the hex fuel line cap and lifted the whole assembly out with a wrench used as a lever. After removing, I unscrewed the hex cap and removed the injector. NOTE: I expected this injector/bushing assembly to come out as one unit from my experience with my last injector cleaning; recall that I had an overly-worn bushing and I had to install O-rings to line-up the injector to pass emissions. This is not usually the case. Generally, the injector will come out without the bushing since it will have fused over time to the intake housing. So, when I remove the assemblies later, I will design a lever tool to remove the injector with the screw threads and the bushing with a pulling hook. Pic 1 shows the reinstalled hex cap. Pic 2 shows the wrench I used to lift out the injector/bushing assembly as a whole. Pic 3 shows the assembly separated from the intake, and... Pic 4 shows the removed injector and bushing assembly. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I removed the injector from the bushing assembly and cleaned the injector of previous installation paste (Permatex Indian Head fuel gasket material). In this series of pics, the excess wear on my old bushing is apparent; see the egg-shaped wear pattern. I also cleaned the injector itself with carb cleaner, a mild scraping tool, and 400 grit sandpaper. The injector shows signs of vibration wear from my last cleaning; this is undesired and an additional motivator to replace injectors on the engine as a whole. The wear is only after about 15 months of minimal driving. Pic 1 is the uncleaned injector after removal from the bushing. Pic 2 is one view of the old, worn bushing with the (removed) O-ring I used for aligning the injector. Pics 3 and 4 are other views of the worn injector bushing. Pic 5 is on the cleaned injector showing the vibration wear present on the injector body. This is an indication of a need for replacement. I plan to fully replace all 8 after testing the bushing. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
To install the injector into the bushing, first emplace the donut seal onto the injector. To lube it, use a little oil. Seat the seal into the large groove of the injector body (not shown in first pic, but detectable in second pic). After this, press the injector body into the bushing; this takes being careful and forceful at the same time. To prevent damage, I use one og the old rubber bushings from my front sway bar as a protector, while pushing the injector body into the bushing in a vise (only use the vise as a surface...do not grab the injector body with the vise). Pic 1 donut seal placed onto the injector body (but not seated). Pic 2 shows the old front sway bar bushing I used for pressing the injector into the bushing. Note that the donut seal is seated in the large groove. Pic 3 shows me using a rag and hand pressure to install the injector body into the bushing. Pic 4 shows the injector/bushing assembly ready to install into the intake. Note the excellent support provided to the injector (much better than my quick fix earlier). Pic 5 is a side-by-side of the former bushing and the new assembly. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
To install the assembly into the intake, first lube it a little and then place into the intake hole...it should not "fall into place" (remember, this is a sealed environment). It will take iterations of hand pressure and SOFT tapping with a long socket (be sure it has enough room inside to keep from damaging threads) to get it into place. Use the long socket with a RUBBER hammer and hand pressure to seat the bushing as far as it will go while allowing the snap ring to be held in place. Pre-install the snap ring. Then use the socket with a PLASTIC hammer to tap the snap ring into its groove so as to spring-seat it. After the snap ring seats and is sprung into its grove, the injector bushing is completely installed. After that, screw on the hex cap and torque (hand tight... about 8-10 ft-lb). Clean the area with carb cleaner, being sure to use the tiny straw and clean inside the injector opening. After this is done, clean the area of fuel and let all fuel evaporate until dry. Then test run the engine. This will re-pressurize the lines and will allow inspection for leakage. IF LEAKAGE or STRONG FUEL SMELL is detected, TURN OFF THE ENGINE and fix before running the engine. Do not over-tighten the fuel line; unscrew a little first, be sure the threads are good, and re-tighten to no more than 11 ft-lb. Pic 1 shows the soft-rubber-tapping method to seat the bushing enough to hold the snap ring in place. Pic 2 shows the snap ring in place but not sprung (ears with holes are close together). Pic 3 shows the soft-plastic-tap method to seat and spring the snap ring into place. Pic 4 shows the snap ring in place in its grove (ears with holes extended out and ring in groove). Pic 5 shows the fuel line re-attached. Pic 6 shows the engine running after clean up and fuel evaporation. My engine ran well with no discernable leaks or fuel smell. ALL DONE! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I'm overwhelmed by the care you took in describing and photographing each step of this for others. Thanks!
Did you replace the injectors on the front bank?Did you have to remove the plenum or did you just remove the engine lid for access?
I think he's just replaced the one bushing atthe moment to see what these new ones are like. FWIW I have just replaced all my injectors and I did it by taking the whole manifold/plenum assembly off & did the work on the bench. I also did take the engine lid off the car although I think you might be able to do this without. That allowed my to spend some time cleaning the manifolds & plenum up properly & also the top of the engine a it as well. While you can take the plenum off and then remove the monifolds individually, the risk is that one of the small spacers that goes between the manifold annd the plenum will drop down into the manifold & that would be bad! Therefore I took the whole thing off in one & the way to do that is to loosen the 8 nuts under the plenum but not remove them. Then remove all the nuts & washers holding the manifolds to the heads (I think there are about 20). By looseneing the nuts under the plenum first you then have enough "play" to be able to remove the whole thing in one (complete with spacers!). Refitting is just the reverse. I also dealt with the injectors in a different way - I just pulled out the old injectors & a couple of the bushings came out with them - but most did not. To remove the others I used a compination of a C clamp and a long socket & sqeezed them out - you need to be very careful with them , they are brittle. To put them back in I pushed the bushings in by hand using a socket and then put a nut on the first few threads at the top of the inhector and pushed that home into the bushing using a socket over the end. A dab of engine oil on all the seals & no hammers/mallets required.
